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From Christopher <ctubb...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Digests in releases
Date Sat, 02 Sep 2017 17:57:22 GMT
My proposal was an attempt to achieve two goals:

1. Drop the absolute MD5 requirement in favor of an "at least MD5"
requirement, and
2. Make [2] consistent with [3] by dropping file naming conventions in [2],
and deferring to the constraints in [3].

If my existing wording is too complex, I'm sure it could be rewritten to
achieve both of these goals with simpler wording. If considering both goals
at the same time is too much to address at once, we could just focus on #1,
since that's more relevant to the topic this thread started with.

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:00 AM Henk P. Penning <penning@uu.nl> wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Christopher wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 03:29:58 +0200
> > From: Christopher <ctubbsii@apache.org>
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Digests in releases
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 5:08 PM Julian Hyde <jhyde@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> What is the correct forum for discussing release distribution policy?
> >>
> >>
> > Good question. I hope it's this one, since this is where the discussion
> is
> > happening.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Current policy [1] states:
> >>
> >>   Every artifact distributed to the public through Apache channels MUST
> >>   be accompanied by one file containing an OpenPGP compatible ASCII
> >>   armored detached signature and another file containing an MD5
> checksum.
> >>
> >>   ...
> >>
> >>   An SHA checksum SHOULD also be created.
> >>
> >>
> >> MD5 is no longer deemed secure[2]. I think we should remove it from
> >> our releases and mandate SHA256 or SHA512.
>
> >> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution.html#sigs-and-sums
> >> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5sum
>
> >
> > A good policy is simple and flexible, in my opinion. Rather than require
> > any specific checksum with others optional, I would personally like to
> see
> > the policy changed to simply require "a detached ASCII-armored GPG
> > signature named <file>.asc for each <file> release artifact, and one
or
> > more standard checksums with a minimum strength of MD5 in a standard file
> > format with a convenient file naming convention"
> >
> > Such a policy could easily be updated by simply changing the "minimum
> > strength", if necessary, in the future. But changing the policy to allow
> > PMCs to drop support for legacy hashes, replaced by newer standards, is
> > infinitely better, in my opinion.
>
>    The '(legal) release policy' [1] says /what/ we want, and /why/.
>    -- note that [1] doesn't even mention checksums.
>    The 'Release Distribution Policy' [2] says /how/ we do it.
>    -- because [2] is about 'implementation' it should preferably be :
>       -- simple, strict, unambiguous and short
>       -- easy to explain and easy to understand
>       -- ASF-wide
>
>    I think the current scheme has the prefered properties.
>
>    [1] http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html
>    [2] http://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution
>    [3] http://www.apache.org/dev/release-publishing
>
> > If my wording needs clarification:
> >
> >  By "standard checksums", I mean MD5, SHA1, or any of the SHA2 family
> > currently, but maybe SHA3 family in future.
> >  By "standard file format", I mean a plain text file containing only the
> > ASCII encoded hex representation of the hash or in a format such as those
> > output by the 'sha*sum' suite of tools (example:
> > https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/1-sha512sum/).
> >  By "convenient file naming convention", I mean the artifact file name
> > with an appended ".md5 or .sha\d*" or aggregated into a file such as
> > CHECKSUMS, SHA1SUM, MD5SUM, etc. for the convenience of verifying
> multiple
> > artifact files from a release.
>
>    If I understand you correctly, the operational word here is "or"
>    in "or aggregated into a file [...]".
>
>    -- The scheme you propose is more complex than the current scheme ;
>       therefor, a priori, it isn't better.
>    -- In your scheme, the checksum of a given file can be in multiple
>       places ; this error-prone, harder to use, check and report.
>    -- Note that [3] /allows/ you to supply 'MD5SUM' and 'SHA*SUM' files,
>       but [3] also says that in general checksum files shouldn't leak
>       to the mirrors, so a list of excluded files is provided ;
>       a short list is better than a long list.
>       [the list appears to be incomplete, which proves my point ;-]
>    -- You talk about a "standard file format" [for checksum files] ;
>       note that the current scheme does /not/ specify anything
>       about the contents of a checksum file ; yet it works (*).
>       Look at the checksum files in /dist/ ; they vary wildly.
>       Prescribing the format of checksum files is a bad idea.
>
>    (*) The checker finds some bad checksum files in /dist/ :
>        https://checker.apache.org/dist/sums.html
>        AFAIK it doesn't report any false negatives or positives ;
>        please send comments etc to me (henkp@apache.org).
>
>    Regards,
>
>    Henk Penning
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------   _
> Henk P. Penning, ICT-beta                 R Uithof HFG-406   _/ \_
> Faculty of Science, Utrecht University    T +31 30 253 4106
> <+31%2030%20253%204106> / \_/ \
> Budapestlaan 6, 3584CD Utrecht, NL        F +31 30 253 4553
> <+31%2030%20253%204553> \_/ \_/
> http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~penni101/ M penning@uu.nl     \_/
>
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