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From Henri Yandell <bay...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Proposing MXNet for the Apache Incubator
Date Fri, 06 Jan 2017 16:40:50 GMT
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 3:52 AM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org> wrote:

> There seem to be some discrepancies in the proposal vs what they currently
> have.  That and some comments in line.
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 12:12 AM Henri Yandell <bayard@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello Incubator,
> >
> > I'd like to propose a new incubator Apache MXNet podling.
> >
> > The existing MXNet project (http://mxnet.io - 1.5 years old, 15
> > committers,
> > 200 contributors) is very interested in joining Apache. MXNet is an
> > open-source deep learning framework that allows you to define, train, and
> > deploy deep neural networks on a wide array of devices, from cloud
> > infrastructure to mobile devices.
> >
>
> This seems to be a broad gap between committers and contributors.  Of the
> remaining 220 not included as committer, are they being considered?
>

Mu's contacting (and has been contacting) contributors to invite them; for
the proposal I went with the notion of the current active folk with write
access and having others introduce themselves. I suspect some are already
awaiting general@ moderators to pass their email through :)

>
> > The wiki proposal page is located here:
> >
> >   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/MXNetProposal
> >
> >
> I've added it to the project proposals page.
>
>
*doh* Thank you :)


>
> > I've included the text below in case anyone wants to focus on parts of it
> > in a reply.
> >
> > Looking forward to your thoughts, and for lots of interested Apache
> members
> > to volunteer to mentor the project in addition to Sebastian and myself.
> >
> > Currently the list of committers is based on the current active coders,
> so
> > we're also very interested in hearing from anyone else who is interested
> in
> > working on the project, be they current or future contributor!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Hen
> > On behalf of the MXNet project
> >
> > ---------
> >
> > = MXNet: Apache Incubator Proposal =
> >
>
>
<snip>


> >
> > === Core Developers ===
> >
> > (with GitHub logins)
> >
> >  * Tianqi Chen (@tqchen)
> >  * Mu Li (@mli)
> >  * Junyuan Xie (@piiswrong)
> >  * Bing Xu (@antinucleon)
> >  * Chiyuan Zhang (@pluskid)
> >  * Minjie Wang (@jermainewang)
> >  * Naiyan Wang (@winstywang)
> >  * Yizhi Liu (@javelinjs)
> >  * Tong He (@hetong007)
> >  * Qiang Kou (@thirdwing)
> >  * Xingjian Shi (@sxjscience)
> >
> >
> AFAIK, we still expect email addresses, not github accounts.
>
>
The GitHubs were just as an FYI :)


>
> >
> > == Initial Source ==
> >
> > We currently use Github to maintain our source code,
> > https://github.com/MXNet
>
>
> This doesn't look right.  This github organization has a single repo that
> contains a mobile app that appears to been 4 years old.  The website points
> to https://github.com/dmlc/mxnet which looks more correct.  Which is it?
> I'll also note that if it is the latter, there are git submodules in the
> codebase.  Please include references to those modules as well.  Please also
> include the website source code, if available.
>

*DOH* thank you :)

There will be more than dmlc/mxnet as some of the other dmlc repos relate
to mxnet too.


>
> I'll point out that since the github name is taken, it may be cause to say
> that MXNet isn't a viable name.  But that can be worked out later.
>

Yup. I did a preliminary name search of the various TESSA type places and
didn't see any blocking concerns.


>
> >
> > == External Dependencies ==
> >
> >  * required by the core code base: GCC or CLOM, Clang, any BLAS library
> > (ATLAS, OpenBLAS, MKL), dmlc-core, mshadow, ps-lite (which requires
> > lib-zeromq), TBB
> >  * required for GPU usage: cudnn, cuda
> >  * required for python usage: Python 2/3
> >  * required for R module: R, Rcpp (GPLv2 licensing)
> >  * optional for image preparation and preprocessing: opencv
> >  * optional dependencies for additional features: torch7, numba, cython
> (in
> > NNVM branch)
> >
>
> Before we go any further, I think we need to address the incompatible
> licenses.  Knowing that R is a core component of MXNet, how will you
> replace it?
>

I don't expect R itself to be an issue. Rcpp I expect to be an issue and
there are options here - either hosting the R module separately or
switching to using Rcpp11 (MIT license).

ZeroMQ is perhaps a larger issue given it's a transitive dependency of the
core codebase. That community has a licensing exception in addition to its
LGPL which can be discussed, it has expressed a desire to move to MPL and
is so prevalent in the ecosystem that I feel it's something to be figured
out rather than avoided. Solutions would involve either approval for the
exception text, rewriting to not use ps-lite, or rewriting ps-lite to not
use zmq (given ps-lite is a dmlc project).


> >
> > == Committers and Affiliations ==
> >
> >  * Tianqi Chen (UW)
> >  * Mu Li (AWS)
> >  * Junyuan Xie (AWS)
> >  * Bing Xu (Apple)
> >  * Chiyuan Zhang (MIT)
> >  * Minjie Wang (UYU)
> >  * Naiyan Wang (Tusimple)
> >  * Yizhi Liu (Mediav)
> >  * Tong He (Simon Fraser University)
> >  * Qiang Kou (Indiana U)
> >  * Xingjian Shi (HKUST)
> >
> >
> This seems to go against the notion of reliance on salaried developers.
> You're in fact not reliant on salaries developers.
>
>
Agreed. I think a lot of the developers are paid to work on mxnet, but it's
as mxnet committers (i.e. they got into mxnet in academia) rather than
their employer directing them to mxnet. I expect more of the latter to
happen, but the core of the project are committed to the project.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Hen

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