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From Tom Barber <...@spicule.co.uk>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Drop incubating requirement of Maven artifacts
Date Tue, 03 Jan 2017 12:03:39 GMT
-1

I use maven all the time and I'd like to know if an artifact was in the
incubator or not due to a bunch of reasons listed above. Namely, it might
not get out of the incubator and end up else where, incomplete release
process and dependencies etc. I would agree with the prior post and suggest
that other non maven artifacts should instead be aligned with maven. That
said I would agree that maybe it shouldn't be in the version and instead in
the classifier or similar.

Tom

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com>
wrote:

> -1, I think it is important to show that the artifact dependency is not
> stable and should be used as such (if the project never graduates, even if
> code is very mature then you still get all the troubles you can think
> about).
>
> Question is IMHO the opposite: why others don't follow the -incubating rule
> as well?
>
> PS: of course an alternative to follow maven common practise would be to
> put incubating in the groupId instead of version but in practise we have
> more easily a placeholder for the version than the groupId so I still think
> version is the easiest place for users. Also note no user complained about
> that excepted about the fact it denotes a lack of maturity which is exactly
> the purpose AFAIK.
>
>
>
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
> <https://blog-rmannibucau.rhcloud.com> | Old Blog
> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/
> rmannibucau> |
> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | JavaEE Factory
> <https://javaeefactory-rmannibucau.rhcloud.com>
>
> 2017-01-03 12:50 GMT+01:00 Myrle Krantz <mkrantz@mifos.org>:
>
> > +1 non-binding
> >
> > If a best practice targets only maven and not the others, wouldn't that
> be
> > a reason for a podling to consider avoiding using maven to distribute
> > binaries at all?  Is it fair for Apache to disadvantage maven that way?
> >
> > Can Apache enforce policies about binaries not released under the Apache
> > name? Wouldn't that sort of policy be in contradiction to the Apache
> > license?
> >
> > Keeping a best practice which is not only unenforceable and inconsistent,
> > but also disadvantageous to any project which tries to follow it,
> > discredits other best practices as well. (Broken windows theory)
> >
> > Greets from Germany
> > Myrle
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:34 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Carsten, Julian,
> > >
> > > I want to reiterate my notes from a prior message [1] in case there is
> > any
> > > confusion over the ask.  There is a "best practice" around maven
> specific
> > > releases that has been treated as policy,  [2].  This best practice for
> > > some reason is only applied if you are using the maven build tool.
> E.g.
> > > published python packages, ruby gems do not have this requirement.  The
> > > purpose of this thread is to realign maven specific releases with the
> > other
> > > convenience binaries published by podlings.
> > >
> > > This is not intended to drop the -incubator/-incubating tag applied to
> > > source releases.  It was however established in 2008 [3] that releases
> > > published by the incubator were endorsed, the -incubator/incubating tag
> > was
> > > to imply that the project itself was not considered stable and could go
> > > away.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > [1]:
> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c6daddf2d564685acdcd14a876bebf
> > > 392b25c268905b353e36b3cac5@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > > [2]:
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/release-java.html#best-
> practice-maven
> > > [3]:
> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/0b6c065a908c5f9ec39fa78c31b39c
> > > 83a6fea29eb34fada0ee070413@1222432864@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org
> %3E
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:47 AM Carsten Ziegeler <cziegeler@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > -1
> > > >
> > > > I followed the "other thread" but it's still unclear to me what real
> > > > problem this tries to solve.
> > > > As others noted, there should be an indicator whether this is already
> > an
> > > > official Apache project or in the incubator and adding it to the
> > version
> > > > information is the solution with causes the least amount of pain for
> > > > users. It's a simple marker, clearly visible for any user.
> > > > And once the project is out of the incubator, users simply need to
> > > > update to a new version - something which they would do anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Carsten
> > > >
> > > > John D. Ament wrote
> > > > > All,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm calling to vote on a proposed policy change.  Current guide at
> > [1]
> > > > > indicates that maven artifacts should include incubator (or
> > incubating)
> > > > in
> > > > > the version string of maven artifacts.  Its labeled as a best
> > practice,
> > > > not
> > > > > a requirement and is not a policy followed on other repository
> > > management
> > > > > tools (e.g. PyPi).
> > > > >
> > > > > I therefore push forward that the incubator will cease expecting
> > > > java-based
> > > > > projects to publish artifacts with "-incubating" in the version
> > string,
> > > > > with the understanding that:
> > > > >
> > > > > - Incubating is a term used to refer to a project's stability, not
> a
> > > > > release's stability.  It is generally understood that incubating
> > > projects
> > > > > are not necessarily immature, but may have a potential of failing
> to
> > > > become
> > > > > a TLP.
> > > > > - Podling releases are endorsed, the podling itself is not
> endorsed.
> > > We
> > > > > will not approve releases that are blatantly against ASF policies.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [ ] +1 Drop the -incubator/-incubating expectation of maven
> projects
> > > > > [ ] +/0
> > > > > [ ] -1 Don't drop because....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]:
> > > > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/release-java.html#best-
> > > practice-maven
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carsten Ziegeler
> > > > Adobe Research Switzerland
> > > > cziegeler@apache.org
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Tom Barber
CTO Spicule LTD
tom@spicule.co.uk

http://spicule.co.uk

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