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From "John D. Ament" <johndam...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Incoming Website Changes
Date Sun, 27 Nov 2016 03:35:18 GMT
On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 10:19 PM Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 6:16 AM, John D. Ament <john.d.ament@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 6:04 PM Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 4:06 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 4:57 PM Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 8:26 AM, John D. Ament <
> johndament@apache.org>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >...
> >> > >
> >> > > > Graduation Guide
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Added a link to the Maturity Model as a step to follow for
> >> graduation.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > There has been past controversy on including that as a graduation
> step.
> >> > I'm
> >> > > not clear that was a proper addition. Every discussion has said
> that it
> >> > can
> >> > > be used as a *guide*, rather than as a checklist.
> >> >
> >> > I argued myself into adding this one.  While I don't disagree with
> your
> >> > perspective, every time a podling graduates it comes up from board
> >> > members.
> >>
> >>
> >> Some Directors != The Board
> >>
> >> The Board has never required the IPMC to use the APMM as a requirement
> for
> >> graduation. And, I don't recall the IPMC making that requirement either.
> >>
> >>
> >> >   The IPMC did not prepare the maturity model, yet somehow it
> >> > applies to podlings planning to graduate.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Says who?
> >>
> >>
> >> > I'll point out that the page itself states this is only a guide, not a
> >> >
> >>
> >> On graduation.html, you list "Complete the Apache Project Maturity
> Model"
> >> as one of the preparation steps. That does not sound like a guide.
> >>
> >> policy.  So I don't think we've changed Incubator policy by adding a
> link.
> >> >
> >>
> >> By listing it like that on the graduation page, it is de facto policy.
> >>
> >>
> >> > I could see it being stated as more of "compare the podlings actions
> and
> >> > behaviors against the maturity model.  I could also see it moving into
> >> the
> >> > "Other Issues" section of the guide instead of the checklist section.
> >> >
> >> > Thoughts?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Personally, I'd be fine with the link under "Other Issues". Something
> like
> >> "You may find the APMM a useful guide, to look at different factors in
> your
> >> podling's community."  (<waves-hand> on phrasing)
> >>
> >>
> > I think at this point, we're just arguing semantics.  I've drafted the
> > following for the other issues section.  I've removed it from the
> checklist
> > section.
>
> The feedback I consistently get from all the podlings I mentor is that
> it would be really great if our documentation clearly separated policy
> from advice. In fact, having two separate documents is what they
> all seem to have in mind. Today we have guides which are pretty verbose
> and mix the two.
>

I've gotten the same type of questions.  The problem is that this line
already exists in the graduation "guide"

This is just a guide. Policy is stated here. (where here is a link to the
actual policy document)

Anyway you can think to make it clearer?



>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
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