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From Gunnar Tapper <tapper.gun...@gmail.com>
Subject [DISCUSS] China Contribution. (was: RocketMQ Incubation Proposal)
Date Thu, 10 Nov 2016 19:00:10 GMT
Hi,

Using the RocketMQ proposal to start a larger discussion.

Apache Trafodion is another project that has a lot of contribution from
China.

One of the struggles I've seen is that the contributors aren't that active
on email. Rather, they prefer to use a forum on QQ communicating in Chinese.

I'm currently the release manager and I must admit that it's hard not to
see all discussions. Several of us are trying to encourage questions etc
via the email lists but users just prefer Chinese forums.

I suspect that Apache will see more of this behavior moving forward,
especially as other proposals come in. So, I'm hoping that members in China
can help advise on what can be done to address communication issues like
this.

Thanks,

Gunnar

On Nov 5, 2016 12:21 PM, "Ross Gardler" <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:

Some folks may remember my state of the feather session a couple of years
ago when I called for more awareness of the ASFs role in open source beyond
English speaking countries. This was prompted by a fact finding trip to
China.

RocketMQ and the team behind it was one of the projects I talked to. We
discussed the Apache way at length, however I have not been involved with
this proposal.

I'm excited to see this proposal. I hope we can bring this project and
welcome the excellent team I met in China into the foundation. We will need
to work hard to ensure the project is a success. Like other China born
projects we will find that there are cultural differences that we need to
understand, but this would not be the first time we, as a foundation and as
individuals, accept an opportunity to grow in this way. Having met some of
the proposing team I am confident that with the right mentors the project
can succeed.

Bruce, thanks for stepping up to help.

Ross

---
Twitter: @rgardler

________________________________
From: Bruce Snyder <bruce.snyder@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2016 9:21:47 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal

Hi John,

Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for constructive
feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ proposal and project using
your suggestions.

First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von Gosling,
there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to the Github
repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging activity' the history was
erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to mean that someone's git-fu went
awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von also gives
further explanation of the project history in a response below. Indeed,
this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen before with git),
but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to improve and
grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way?

Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is
the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF exist
together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good mentors,
regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My interest in
helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my interest in continuing
to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years experience
at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over
another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate
constructively with others on open source and to foster a community of
inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The ASF is an
inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn from new
projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code and stay for
the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a new project and
people to the ASF.

Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good suggestions
for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the proposal. Even
if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be great
ideas to debate around the code base and within the project moving forward.
I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you mentioned
as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the RocketMQ code
base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John with his
thoughts:

Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two questions
specifically:

- How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
build cross platform clients?
- How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
persistence stores?


Bruce

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament <john.d.ament@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> >    https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Falibaba%2FRocketMQ%2Fgraphs%
2Fcontributors&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%
7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011
db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=96ixj1Js5%
2BytkM0Pru7nABYfTTYimOP5se5POgOMleo%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> >
> > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> >
>
> So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I suspect
> its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> product and it was kept internal.
>
> I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
> of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in their
> code base.
>
> Some other ways to address this section:
>
> - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?
>
> etc..
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <brianm@skife.org>
> > wrote:
> > > +1 !
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Cool.
> > >>
> > >> +1
> > >>
> > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <bruce.snyder@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> Apache
> > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed,
easy
> > to
> > >> use
> > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large
amounts
> > of
> > >> > streaming data.
> > >> >
> > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following URL:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
2Fwiki.apache.org%2Fincubator%2FRocketMQProposal&data=02%
7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%
7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=
xjsmhUA5%2Ftnl5HnA4LtQnVGa5ddYybjaKIe3CRgS9S0%3D&reserved=0
> > >> >
> > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Bruce
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
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> >
> >
>



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