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From: Stian Soiland-Reyes <stain@apache.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:08:14 +0100
Message-ID: <CAMBJEmUmFovQCZsuNm8BVCOfK0DYLsq8Z6nj-YmBTuazuqx5og@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [discuss] Move podling rosters to LDAP
To: general@incubator.apache.org
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archived-at: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:08:20 -0000

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Does means podlings will also need to define both a $podling and
$podling-pmc group?

Many podlings don't have a clear distinction - at least not in listings.
Perhaps they should..

On 22 Sep 2016 3:17 a.m., "Sam Ruby" <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:

> cc += gstein
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <stain@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Did this conclude..? Just in case it didn't, here's my +1 as well to
> > make podling membership be in proper LDAP groups; with email
> > notifications to private@podling as you mention.
>
> This did not conclude, but you picked an opportune time to resurrect
> this thread with Greg joining the infrastructure team.  In fact, I was
> planning to restart this thread for exactly that reason; thank you for
> doing it.
>
> My assessment previously was that there wasn't enough demand at the
> time to overcome inertia.  This change will undoubtedly break things
> temporarily, but nothing that can't be fixed quickly.
>
> > (I am lucky enough to have faced the asf-authorization-template a
> > couple of times :) )
>
> Join the club. :-)  The current process sucks, doesn't it.  :-)
>
> > Ensuring people.apache.org is updated would also make it easier for
> > podlings to refer to a canonical list of who are their members; which
> > would work somewhat the same way after graduating.
>
> That's part of the discussion I would like to have.  I'm proposing
> that members of the podling can update the group.  Currently only PMC
> chairs can modify PMCs.  And furthermore, PMC chairs can modify *any*
> PMC, not just the one(s) they chair.
>
> I'd like to change this so that PMC members can modify their own
> group.  And I believe that the increased notifications that this tool
> will provide will enable proper oversight.
>
> I also believe this to be fully in line with the President's (Ross's)
> desire to enable self-service.
>
> But a change of this magnitude to the way that we operate is something
> that requires a critical mass of support.  Thanks for lending your
> voice to this discussion.
>
> > Letting podling members modify the group themselves is good (as you
> > said the worst they can do is add another committer), as long as we'll
> > keep the account creation process under the hands of ASF Members (as
> > it is now).
>
> ASF members and officers.
>
> By the way, if you ever want to submit an account request, you might
> want to try https://whimsy.apache.org/officers/acreq/; it loads much
> faster than https://id.apache.org/acreq/; if you like it, spread the
> word.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> > On 2 September 2016 at 18:52, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:49 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:42 PM Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The first stage would be migrating existing lists to LDAP.  This will
> >>>> require some small changes to whimsy and the phone book application.
> >>>> The whole effort will only take a few hours and be spread over a few
> >>>> days elapsed time.
> >>>>
> >>>> To prepare, we will need to decide who gets to modify these lists, and
> >>>> who gets notified.  I propose that members of podlings be able to
> modify
> >>>> the list, and the private list associated with that podling be
> notified
> >>>> on changes.  Alternate choices would include mentors for the podling,
> or
> >>>> the IPMC.  Given that notification facilitates oversight, I encourage
> >>>> this to be pushed down to the podling, but will go with whatever the
> >>>> consensus turns out to be.
> >>>
> >>> My vote would be for mentors to be able to do this.  The podlings don't
> >>> know enough yet to manage this on their own.  I would be concerned of
> >>> missed process steps if the podling themselves could do it.
> >>
> >> See Mark's comment, and my response to it.
> >>
> >>>> The second stage would be to define an interface for adding (and
> perhaps
> >>>> removing) podlings.  This could be limited to the IPMC and the web
> >>>> interface could ensure that it is only possible to create entries that
> >>>> are present in podlings.xml.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Could this lead to the eventual removal of podlings.xml ?
> >>
> >> It could lead to where-ever the IPMC wants to go. :-)
> >>
> >> My preference is that the canonical definition be in SVN, git, LDAP or
> >> some such, and that tools like whimsy remain only a convenient
> >> mechanism to update these definitions.
> >>
> >>> Does any of this have a relationship to projects.apache.org ?
> >>
> >> At a minimum, both would derive information from a common source.
> >>
> >> My understanding is that the focus of projects.apache.org is to
> >> provide a public-facing and read-only interface to this data.
> >>
> >> The whimsy roster tool would provide an authenticated read-write
> >> interface to this data.  And a non-exclusive one.  Other tools could
> >> be written that update that information.
> >>
> >> - Sam Ruby
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stian Soiland-Reyes
> > http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
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