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From: Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:52:16 +0200
Message-ID: <CACkjAxQV-twUh+E8rAJEEdcVPHOWsLCEQeHZB+_WbUioq4vMhw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
To: general@incubator.apache.org
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archived-at: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 12:52:26 -0000

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On 19.09.2016 1:10, Raphael Bircher wrote:

> My biggest fear ist the community. As I saw on the NetBeans ML, the
> decision to join the ASF was made by Oracle. Well a load of the
> community members welcome this step, but there are also fears. This
> fears has to be addressed, this is very very important.


You are right. There are mixed feelings about this move. However, by far
the majority are strongly in favor. Yesterday at JavaOne, we discussed this
move at length in a number of sessions and James Gosling, the most
respected individual contributor on the initial committers list (who sent
his ICL the second he was invited to join the project, i.e., even before
the proposal was submitted) said he is "unspeakably thrilled" about
NetBeans in the context of Apache.

Indeed, there are going to be people who are negative about this. Some have
said that Apache is a "burial ground". I disagree with that and I think
that is nonsense. However, just because one or two people say that does not
mean I think any differently about Apache.

Thanks,

Geertjan

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Raphael Bircher <rbircherapache@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Geertjan
>
> I'm registred at NetBeams now, to get a closer look at the project. I
> was a bit shocked about the similarities with the formar
> OpenOffice.org project. The structure of the Project, the workflow
> etc. are so close to the OpenOffice.org project, much closer as I
> expected. My biggest fear for the incubation is not the technical
> aspect. For infrastructure we will find solutions, and for many
> problems exist already blueprints from the OpenOffice Project. My
> biggest fear ist the community. As I saw on the NetBeans ML, the
> decision to join the ASF was made by Oracle. Well a load of the
> community members welcome this step, but there are also fears. This
> fears has to be addressed, this is very very important.
>
> One Mail also complained about the Initial Committer list. Are all
> active committers who did commit in the last 6 month (or so) on the
> initial committer list. forgotten people can create bad blood and
> disappointment. The committers are the most value part of a project.
>
> This are at the moment my biggest concerns.
>
> Regards Raphael
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
> <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Nightly builds is all that's needed, indeed, no one needs to announce
> them,
> > they should simply be available. Agreed it's important to distinguish
> > between nightly builds and official releases, that's exactly how NetBeans
> > works currently. The #1 requirement here is that there should be nightly
> > builds and that is supported, from your response here.
> >
> > Geertjan
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> > bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
> >> <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> > ...the #1 requirement is for Apache NetBeans to be able
> >> > to produce daily/release builds and to upload them to netbeans.org or
> >> > another download area under Apache....
> >>
> >> Daily releases are problematic in Apache projects as the PMC needs to
> >> approve releases, and in general those votes last at least 72 hours
> >> due to our async collaboration model.
> >>
> >> AFAIK Apache Cordova for example is making very frequent releases, it
> >> might be interesting to find out how they enable that, in due time.
> >>
> >> Nightly builds should not be announced outside of the project's
> >> developers mailing lists, to mark a clear line between those and
> >> official releases.
> >>
> >> All those things can be discussed during incubation of course, just
> >> wanted to mention them due to the above #1 requirement.
> >>
> >> -Bertrand
> >>
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