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From "John D. Ament" <johndam...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Preliminary NetBeans cost findings
Date Sun, 25 Sep 2016 18:47:28 GMT
On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:27 PM Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de.invalid>
wrote:

> +1
>
> This is almsot a worst case calculation.
> I too think that we will be able to cut down costs seriously as we do not
> need 10 servers anymore.
>
> E.g. we can share the OSX box with OpenOffice, the GIT repo will get cut
> down and the traffic is mostly offloaded to github.
>

Last I heard, the OS X box had been decommissioned.  There is no OS X
builds for AOO at this time.


> We might be able to offload the plugins hosting to Maven.central and/or
> Bintray, etc
>

Please check our notes vs what Geertjan has proposed.


>
> Of course there will still be resources which are needed, but I don't see
> them as show stopper.
>
>
> I also think the initial committer discussion is resolved.
>
> So what else do we need before starting a VOTE?
> This thread has almost 200 replies, so there seems to be a huge interest...
>
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sunday, 25 September 2016, 19:03, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >
> >
> >>  My only concern, if you go ahead with a vote before you get an ack, is
> >>  that you vote in a podling that may not get the resources it needs.
> >
> >
> > I'd like to reiterate a point I have made earlier: the preliminary
> NetBeans
> > cost findings are based on the current infrastructure of NetBeans in
> > Oracle. In the context of Apache, a number of the services we had before
> we
> > will (1) not need anymore or (2) not have supported by Apache anymore.
> >
> > During incubation, we will work on moving the Oracle NetBeans
> > infrastructure to the Apache NetBeans infrastructure. We are extremely
> > interested in being part of Apache and have wanted this for many years
> > already -- we are going to err on the side of compliance with the Apache
> > Way over the structures we had before. Take a look again at the proposal
> > and notice how many organizations are already involved -- multiple of
> those
> > will be able to provide the services that Apache may not be able to
> provide.
> >
> > We simply want to be an Apache project, we love Apache, we have supported
> > so many Apache projects over the years (Maven, Ant, Groovy, and more) and
> > want to support even more of them and simply be good citizens of the
> Apache
> > community.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>  On 09/25/2016 06:22 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> >>  > Hi Daniel,
> >>  >
> >>  > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Daniel Gruno
> > <humbedooh@apache.org>
> >>  wrote:
> >>  >> ...ballpark costs, bandwidth, machines needed and so forth, and
> > the
> >>  cliff
> >>  >> notes are as follows...
> >>  >
> >>  > Thanks very much for this - it is useful and I think we should do
> that
> >>  > for any "big" podling that comes in, from now on.
> >>  >
> >>  >> ...Thus, I would submit to the IPMC that they consider asking the
> > board
> >>  for
> >>  >> a budget of roughly $10k per year for the NetBeans project, as
> > well as
> >>  >> the additional time required of Infrastructure to implement this
> > into
> >>  >> the existing ASF infra....
> >>  >
> >>  > I don't think asking for budget is a task of the Incubator PMC, I
> > would
> >>  suggest
> >>  >
> >>  > 1. Incubator PMC/infra estimates the cost of new podlings as you did
> >>  > 2. Incubator PMC reports those numbers to ASF infra at regular
> >>  > intervals, maybe just include them in their monthly reports
> >>  > 3. Infra adds the numbers up and if needed asks for more budget based
> >>  > on these podlings
> >>
> >>  I think it very much _is_ the job of the IPMC to argue for increased
> >>  spending, as any other project would if they required additional funds
> >>  for specific requirements. The IPMC (or rather, a part of it) wants to
> >>  add NetBeans as a podling, it should be up to the IPMC to argue the
> >>  podling's case.
> >>
> >>  Infra has already expressed concerns with the costs of the podling
> >>  (remember VP Infra started this discussion), it's up to the IPMC to get
> >>  an ack that this increased expenditure is okay. I'm not saying this
> >>  needs to be voted on by the board (I honestly don't know/care how this
> >>  is done), but it should be acked by operations that the added expense
> is
> >>  okay.
> >>
> >>  >
> >>  > For now, considering that the numbers you indicate won't make a
> > big
> >>  > dent in the current infra budget [1] and considering that it's the
> >>  > first time we do such an analysis I suggest for the infra team to
> >>  > accept decoupling the NetBeans acceptance vote from the details of
> >>  > these numbers, and we'll sort out the corresponding budget later
> > at
> >>  > the board / infra level.
> >>
> >>  Infra doesn't decide which podlings the IPMC lets into the fold, but it
> >>  may say "sorry, we're not going to offer you the services you
> > require"
> >>  if there's no acknowledgement that an increased expense is okay.
> >>
> >>  The IPMC is, for all I care, free to hold a vote, in which people may
> >>  vote -1 if they don't think the budget is sound/warranted. Infra
> > doesn't
> >>  have binding votes there :)
> >>
> >>  My only concern, if you go ahead with a vote before you get an ack, is
> >>  that you vote in a podling that may not get the resources it needs.
> >>
> >>  With regards,
> >>  Daniel.
> >>
> >>  >
> >>  > -Bertrand
> >>  >
> >>  > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/
> >>  2015/board_minutes_2015_04_22.txt
> >>  > for example
> >>  >
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