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From Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>
Subject Preliminary NetBeans cost findings (was: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal)
Date Sun, 25 Sep 2016 09:08:39 GMT
Ross Gardler is the current president of the ASF so in a way he does sign
the check and should be worried about these things.

Still, the number of Java developers is only growing and they need an IDE
and NetBeans is a major IDE with 1.5 million individual users! This number
is probably conservative since it excludes all the people behind
(corporate) firewalls.

Helping NetBeans would be for the public good and it really does help the
other Apache properties such as Ant, Maven, Tomcat, Groovy, etc.

Business wise, NetBeans is a great deal for Apache. The netbeans.org domain
alone could pull in ads the cost of infrastructure (although ASF might have
a policy against ads, etc, etc)


--emi

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com');>> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> >
> > Don't make the request until the IPMC can present an argument that a move
> > of NetBeans to the ASF will reverse the decline in interest that NetBeans
> > is seeing.
>
>
> OK, we do need to see the basis for that assertion. I think the only thing
> that cannot be tolerated is assertions without basis. Where is the evidence
> of "the decline in interest that NetBeans is seeing"? Because, speaking on
> behalf of the NetBeans community, we are not seeing that, at all. That
> evidence is not there or, if it is, we need to know what it is.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com');>>
> wrote:
>
> > The ASF need to justify spending an extra $10k per year in this one
> > project at the expense of that $10k going to other projects.
> >
> > Don't make the request until the IPMC can present an argument that a move
> > of NetBeans to the ASF will reverse the decline in interest that NetBeans
> > is seeing.
> >
> > It may sound trivial, but we can support three "traditional" ASF projects
> > for NetBeans budget. As a charity we need to think carefully about how we
> > spend our money. A solid argument that this would reverse the downward
> > trend for NetBeans will go a long way to reassuring me (as one member,
> but
> > also as the person ultimately responsible for paying such a budget
> request
> > to the board).
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > ---
> > Twitter: @rgardler
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ted.dunning@gmail.com');>>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:04:34 PM
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','general@incubator.apache.org');>
> > Subject: Re: Preliminary NetBeans cost findings (was: [DISCUSS] Apache
> > NetBeans Incubator Proposal)
> >
> > Should this request come from IPMC? Seems like it should be at least a
> coop
> > request between infra (who get the budget and the operational onus) and
> > incubator (who cause the problem).
> >
> > Certainly the budget shouldn't come to the IPMC if approved.
> >
> > I will work with the board to determine the best form.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:57 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mattmann@apache.org');>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Daniel this is great work. Thank you for outlining this. Wow!
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/24/16, 3:17 AM, "Daniel Gruno" <humbedooh@apache.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','humbedooh@apache.org');>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     Hi folks,
> > >
> > >     I've been going over the requirements for NetBeans infrastructure,
> > it's
> > >     ballpark costs, bandwidth, machines needed and so forth, and the
> > cliff
> > >     notes are as follows:
> > >
> > >     - 40-50TB/month in traffic required (mostly downloads+plugins)
> > >     - 8-13 machines/VMS are required
> > >     - Ballpark hardware costs are between $3k and $10k per year,
> > depending
> > >       on how much we can move to existing infrastructure and how close
> we
> > >       come to the original setup. The most likely figure we are working
> > > with
> > >       is $4.9k, but we should be prepared for a larger cost, just in
> > case.
> > >     - The maintenance will be split between infra (downloads, web site,
> > CI,
> > >       new build machines) and the project (services, plugins,
> > statistics),
> > >       which will undoubtedly incur additional costs in terms of infra
> > time
> > >       spent on this, possibly to the tune of $10-20k in the initial
> > phase.
> > >
> > >     Certain services like the plugins hosting will rely on Legal giving
> > the
> > >     go-ahead for it, otherwise we'll have to find other people willing
> to
> > >     host this.
> > >
> > >     Other items like downloads may be offset by CDN providers offering
> > > their
> > >     assistance, but we should be prepared for this not being the case
> > from
> > >     the beginning, thus the 40-50TB/month. Likewise, some machine costs
> > >     may be offset by cloud providers offering services for free.
> > >
> > >     Thus, I would submit to the IPMC that they consider asking the
> board
> > > for
> > >     a budget of roughly $10k per year for the NetBeans project, as well
> > as
> > >     the additional time required of Infrastructure to implement this
> into
> > >     the existing ASF infra. As we may be able to pool resources and
> > utilize
> > >     the new hardware for multiple projects, the cost may go down in the
> > >     coming years, but this is the baseline I suggest we consider when
> > >     approving NetBeans as a new podling.
> > >
> > >     With regards,
> > >     Daniel.
> > >
> > >
> > >     ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
>



-- 

--emi

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