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From Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Netbeans expectations (Was: Re: ASF doing too much? (Was: Re: TAC))
Date Wed, 28 Sep 2016 09:45:20 GMT
> 3) You write how the topic of "what value does the ASF provide to my
project"
comes up quite frequently in the incubator. Unless already done, I would
like to
see this documented under some stable URL to point people to. Not only do I
get
this question to from time to time, it might also help other projects
thinking
about going to the ASF make an informed decision.

+1

As somebody just getting used to Apache I would find such a document
interesting.

Pe miercuri, 28 septembrie 2016, Isabel Drost-Fromm <isabel@apache.org> a
scris:

>
> (again an explicit note for the mix of private and public mailing lists for
> those hitting reply-to-all after reading the below)
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I think we are talking cross-purposes here. Trying to summarize what I
> believe
> I'm hearing here, those actually involved, please correct if I'm totally
> off.
>
> For starters, Roman, I understand how being labelled "not involved in the
> Netbeans
> proposal" is offending to you. I do think there are a few points that Jim
> raised that truly are worrying though. In my opinion it makes sense to
> focus
> on these as opposed to discussing who is or isn't to "(git) praise" for
> them.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 03:39:26PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > To be clear: "Netbeans stakeholders" had serious and misleading
> > > information about what Apache provided and it was only brought
> > > out via some backchannel discussion with someone not involved
> > > in the Netbeans proposal (from the Apache side) at all...
>
> For me this gets directly to the point: When I started being involved as
> more
> than a user at Apache one of the first principles I learnt was that
> essentially
> "anything that didn't happen on the mailing list didn't happen".
>
> If one of our projects (TLP, incubating, prospective) had a flawed
> understanding
> of what the ASF provides I would expect this discussion to be important
> enough
> to have it on some archived mailing list.
>
>
> > I am actually offended by your categorization of me as the one who
> > is "not involved in the Netbeans proposal (from the  Apache side) at
> all..."
>
> @Roman: If you step back and re-read the statement, maybe you can follow my
> first intuition that this could actually be seen as praise to the person
> who
> brought this issue up despite not being officially affiliated/ involved
> with
> the Netbeans proposal. (@Jim, maybe I'm totally off here interpreting your
> words
> waaay too optimistically ;) )
>
>
> > Putting aside the amount of personal time I've spent on the phone,
> > online, etc. trying to help this community calibrate their expectations
> > about transition to ASF
>
> I remember that whenever someone at Mahout was talking about having a
> discussion
> on IRC, Hipchat, Hangouts, Slack, on the phone or whatever your favourite
> sync communication tool was people popped up dragging the discussion (or at
> least the decisions made during the discussion) back to our canonical form
> of
> communication which happened to be the public mailing list.
>
> Back there it was for several good reasons: People who weren't in the same
> time
> zone got a chance to chime into the discussion, people late to the
> discussion -
> even years late - could still participate, if the same discussion ever
> came up
> again we could refer people back to the archives instead of repeating
> previous
> wisdom.
>
> I believe those reasons are also valid for discussions happening around
> projects
> going through incubation (including as early as around the time of proposal
> submission). On top I can see at least three more reasons why in the
> incubator
> we should err on the "put too much stuff on the mailing list instead of too
> little" actually:
>
> 1) In essence the incubator is where we "teach" new incoming projects how
> to
> collaborate. If we agree that the "if it didn't happen on the mailing list
> it
> didn't happen" actually is a thing, I believe we should act as role models
> for
> that principle so new projects have good examples to follow.
>
> 2) Netbeans is a very publicly visible project. It has many downstream
> users.
> There already is quite some controversial discussions around it going
> through
> incubation outside the ASF. I believe this makes it even more important to
> put
> as much information around how the project together with us arrived at
> certain
> decisions out publicly. Not only for others to follow now, but also to
> reference
> back to in the future.
>
> 3) You write how the topic of "what value does the ASF provide to my
> project"
> comes up quite frequently in the incubator. Unless already done, I would
> like to
> see this documented under some stable URL to point people to. Not only do
> I get
> this question to from time to time, it might also help other projects
> thinking
> about going to the ASF make an informed decision.
>
>
> Thanks for reading this far, hope you find the above helpful,
> Isabel
>
>
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