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From Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: Preliminary NetBeans cost findings (was: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal)
Date Sun, 25 Sep 2016 22:05:35 GMT
On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:


> Having a third party run a service under an Apache brand requires working
> with VP Brand.


Indeed, this is something we're going to need to do. I.e., there will be
existing NetBeans services that Apache will not be hosting. The clearest
case of this will be plugins.netbeans.org. That is a service that one or
more individual contributors will take on, making use of the infrastructure
of an organization they work for.

I.e., if Apache is not going to host one or more services currently hosted
by Oracle, and if those services are needed by NetBeans, something will
need to be done to resolve the situation, which will be that the service
will be hosted by someone else. An individual contributor could host
plugins.netbeans.org on their own private server, of course, though an
organization volunteering this service is a more likely and stable
scenario. I am sure other Apache projects have similar arrangements and
this will not be new for Apache in any way.

Gj



On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rich Bowen <rbowen@rcbowen.com> wrote:

> On Sep 24, 2016 23:08, "Geertjan Wielenga" <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
> com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, excellent work and many thanks for the time taken on this, Daniel.
> For
> > anyone reading this -- do note that these are preliminary findings based
> on
> > the current infrastructure of NetBeans, which is going to be very
> different
> > under Apache, e.g., plugins.netbeans.org looks like it will be hosted
> > somewhere else by one of the companies involved in Apache NetBeans.
>
> A couple of reminders:
>
> Individuals, not companies, are involved in Apache projects.
>
> Having a third party run a service under an Apache brand requires working
> with VP Brand.
>
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:04 AM, Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Should this request come from IPMC? Seems like it should be at least a
> coop
> > > request between infra (who get the budget and the operational onus) and
> > > incubator (who cause the problem).
> > >
> > > Certainly the budget shouldn't come to the IPMC if approved.
> > >
> > > I will work with the board to determine the best form.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:57 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Daniel this is great work. Thank you for outlining this. Wow!
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/24/16, 3:17 AM, "Daniel Gruno" <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     Hi folks,
> > > >
> > > >     I've been going over the requirements for NetBeans
> infrastructure,
> > > it's
> > > >     ballpark costs, bandwidth, machines needed and so forth, and the
> > > cliff
> > > >     notes are as follows:
> > > >
> > > >     - 40-50TB/month in traffic required (mostly downloads+plugins)
> > > >     - 8-13 machines/VMS are required
> > > >     - Ballpark hardware costs are between $3k and $10k per year,
> > > depending
> > > >       on how much we can move to existing infrastructure and how
> close we
> > > >       come to the original setup. The most likely figure we are
> working
> > > > with
> > > >       is $4.9k, but we should be prepared for a larger cost, just in
> > > case.
> > > >     - The maintenance will be split between infra (downloads, web
> site,
> > > CI,
> > > >       new build machines) and the project (services, plugins,
> > > statistics),
> > > >       which will undoubtedly incur additional costs in terms of infra
> > > time
> > > >       spent on this, possibly to the tune of $10-20k in the initial
> > > phase.
> > > >
> > > >     Certain services like the plugins hosting will rely on Legal
> giving
> > > the
> > > >     go-ahead for it, otherwise we'll have to find other people
> willing to
> > > >     host this.
> > > >
> > > >     Other items like downloads may be offset by CDN providers
> offering
> > > > their
> > > >     assistance, but we should be prepared for this not being the case
> > > from
> > > >     the beginning, thus the 40-50TB/month. Likewise, some machine
> costs
> > > >     may be offset by cloud providers offering services for free.
> > > >
> > > >     Thus, I would submit to the IPMC that they consider asking the
> board
> > > > for
> > > >     a budget of roughly $10k per year for the NetBeans project, as
> well
> > > as
> > > >     the additional time required of Infrastructure to implement this
> into
> > > >     the existing ASF infra. As we may be able to pool resources and
> > > utilize
> > > >     the new hardware for multiple projects, the cost may go down in
> the
> > > >     coming years, but this is the baseline I suggest we consider when
> > > >     approving NetBeans as a new podling.
> > > >
> > > >     With regards,
> > > >     Daniel.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     ------------------------------------------------------------
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> org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> ---------
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>

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