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From Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: Preliminary NetBeans cost findings (was: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal)
Date Sun, 25 Sep 2016 08:14:11 GMT
On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> Don't make the request until the IPMC can present an argument that a move
> of NetBeans to the ASF will reverse the decline in interest that NetBeans
> is seeing.


OK, we do need to see the basis for that assertion. I think the only thing
that cannot be tolerated is assertions without basis. Where is the evidence
of "the decline in interest that NetBeans is seeing"? Because, speaking on
behalf of the NetBeans community, we are not seeing that, at all. That
evidence is not there or, if it is, we need to know what it is.

Gj

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
wrote:

> The ASF need to justify spending an extra $10k per year in this one
> project at the expense of that $10k going to other projects.
>
> Don't make the request until the IPMC can present an argument that a move
> of NetBeans to the ASF will reverse the decline in interest that NetBeans
> is seeing.
>
> It may sound trivial, but we can support three "traditional" ASF projects
> for NetBeans budget. As a charity we need to think carefully about how we
> spend our money. A solid argument that this would reverse the downward
> trend for NetBeans will go a long way to reassuring me (as one member, but
> also as the person ultimately responsible for paying such a budget request
> to the board).
>
> Ross
>
> ---
> Twitter: @rgardler
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:04:34 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Preliminary NetBeans cost findings (was: [DISCUSS] Apache
> NetBeans Incubator Proposal)
>
> Should this request come from IPMC? Seems like it should be at least a coop
> request between infra (who get the budget and the operational onus) and
> incubator (who cause the problem).
>
> Certainly the budget shouldn't come to the IPMC if approved.
>
> I will work with the board to determine the best form.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:57 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Daniel this is great work. Thank you for outlining this. Wow!
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On 9/24/16, 3:17 AM, "Daniel Gruno" <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi folks,
> >
> >     I've been going over the requirements for NetBeans infrastructure,
> it's
> >     ballpark costs, bandwidth, machines needed and so forth, and the
> cliff
> >     notes are as follows:
> >
> >     - 40-50TB/month in traffic required (mostly downloads+plugins)
> >     - 8-13 machines/VMS are required
> >     - Ballpark hardware costs are between $3k and $10k per year,
> depending
> >       on how much we can move to existing infrastructure and how close we
> >       come to the original setup. The most likely figure we are working
> > with
> >       is $4.9k, but we should be prepared for a larger cost, just in
> case.
> >     - The maintenance will be split between infra (downloads, web site,
> CI,
> >       new build machines) and the project (services, plugins,
> statistics),
> >       which will undoubtedly incur additional costs in terms of infra
> time
> >       spent on this, possibly to the tune of $10-20k in the initial
> phase.
> >
> >     Certain services like the plugins hosting will rely on Legal giving
> the
> >     go-ahead for it, otherwise we'll have to find other people willing to
> >     host this.
> >
> >     Other items like downloads may be offset by CDN providers offering
> > their
> >     assistance, but we should be prepared for this not being the case
> from
> >     the beginning, thus the 40-50TB/month. Likewise, some machine costs
> >     may be offset by cloud providers offering services for free.
> >
> >     Thus, I would submit to the IPMC that they consider asking the board
> > for
> >     a budget of roughly $10k per year for the NetBeans project, as well
> as
> >     the additional time required of Infrastructure to implement this into
> >     the existing ASF infra. As we may be able to pool resources and
> utilize
> >     the new hardware for multiple projects, the cost may go down in the
> >     coming years, but this is the baseline I suggest we consider when
> >     approving NetBeans as a new podling.
> >
> >     With regards,
> >     Daniel.
> >
> >
> >     ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
>

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