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From "John D. Ament" <john.d.am...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: On Fluo (was Re: [CANCEL][VOTE] Fluo Parent POM 1-incubating (rc2))
Date Tue, 02 Aug 2016 20:31:41 GMT
On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser <elserj@apache.org> wrote:

> Mentor here catching up on things here after being offline for a week...
>
> Wow. This rather blew up! A couple of things I wanted to say, in
> addition to an ACK that this mentor is paying attention (as much as the
> email backlog is caught up, anyways).
>
> - I think there is a very fair point brought up by Craig/Justin/John at
> the gray line between "Apache Fluo" and "fluo.io". However, I will say
> that I do *not* think this is remotely close to the level that we've
> seen in other TLPs as of late (will avoid explicit finger-pointing).
> That said, I think the outcome that the PPMC has came to on their own as
> next steps is healthy (see dev@fluo list). I also plan to address why
> some of these software tools which were developed in tandem with Fluo
> (pre-Apache) were not included with the original incubation proposal (I
> hadn't realized they were listed on the website as they were). I would
> venture most are unintentional omissions as the website came verbatim
> from pre-Apache fluo. The podling has already been responsive to my
> nit-picks on ASF and Incubator branding requests that I put forth to them.
>

You have to remember, the incubator is focused on getting projects ready
for TLP.  These issues tend to become more noticeable.


>
> - One thing that initially worried me is that a software release was
> being -1'd over podling branding (the later concession to separate the
> topics did make me happy). Proper branding for podlings, especially ones
> that have a pre-Apache life, is obviously tricky to do well and cycles
> of the review are inevitable. However, given how difficult creating
> properly-licensed ASF releases is, should branding concerns be lumped
> into release votes? Is there another mechanism by which we as IPMC can
> give feedback to podlings at a time which they are not already stressed
> trying to make a software release?
>

There's certain things that block graduation, and things that block
releases.  As far as I'm concerned, branding issues did not block this
release.  Also please note that -1's on releases aren't vetoes.  If you get
enough +1's it'll pass.

An issue where pre-apache releases were not properly labeled on the
podlings the website caused me to vote a -1.  Granted, the issue turned
into a branding problem.  Upon closer inspection, looking at fluo, their
readme raised a few red flags from my point of view.  I was trying to
figure out when they went for a full release (not just a pom file) what was
going to be involved.  Upon looking at
https://github.com/apache/incubator-fluo/blob/master/README.md I
incorrectly got the impression that the only way to use fluo was to use
tools not developed at the ASF.  This is a big red flag.  This turned into
a really bad discussion over the use of fluo.io.


>
> I'm reminded of John's
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BrandingAuditJune2016 which was a
> great high-level insight across podlings. Are branding-audits something
> that mentors could drive with their PPMC directly with shepherds/IPMC
> bringing their concerns directly to the PPMC/metnors (to avoid licensing
> becoming entangled with branding)? IPMC would obviously still have the
> ability to escalate things in very heinous situations, but -1'ing
> releases for website issues doesn't sit right with me presently (I'm
> happy to be taught otherwise, too).
>

Yes, I would love to see mentors push their podlings forward, and perhaps
even maintain this going forward.


>
> - Josh
>
> Christopher wrote:
> > Consider this vote canceled, until we can work through some of the issues
> > identified in the thread.
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 2:14 PM Christopher<ctubbsii@apache.org>  wrote:
> >
> >> In preparation for a 1.0.0-incubating release of Fluo, the Fluo team is
> >> first separately releasing a parent POM. This release passed a PPMC
> vote on
> >> the Fluo dev@ list here:
> >>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2f801cc81b7eab1f3438da23d8973626755a77e9038f80cce2b30ae9@%3Cdev.fluo.apache.org%3E
> >>
> >> Please consider the following candidate for Fluo Parent POM
> 1-incubating.
> >>
> >> Git Commit:
> >>      (https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-fluo.git)
> >>      e9ed4334dd4cc5df27def417f26d6d7362470cb8
> >> Branch:
> >>      fluo-parent-1-rc2
> >>
> >> If this vote passes, a gpg-signed tag will be created using:
> >>      git tag -f -m 'Apache Fluo Parent POM 1-incubating' -s
> >> rel/fluo-parent-1-incubating e9ed4334dd4cc5df27def417f26d6d7362470cb8
> >>
> >> Staging repo:
> >> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachefluo-1003
> >> Source (official release artifact):
> >>
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachefluo-1003/org/apache/fluo/fluo-parent/1-incubating/fluo-parent-1-incubating-source-release.tar.gz
> >> (Append ".sha1", ".md5", or ".asc" to download the signature/hash for a
> >> given artifact.)
> >>
> >> Signing key fingerprint is: 8CC4F8A2B29C2B040F2B835D6F0CDAE700B6899D
> >>
> >> Please vote one of:
> >> [ ] +1 - I have verified and accept...
> >> [ ] +0 - I have reservations, but not strong enough to vote against...
> >> [ ] -1 - Because..., I do not accept...
> >> ... these artifacts as the 1-incubating release of Apache Fluo Parent
> POM.
> >>
> >> This vote will end on Tue Aug 02 18:30:00 UTC 2016
> >> (Tue Aug 02 14:30:00 EDT 2016 / Tue Aug 02 11:30:00 PDT 2016)
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> P.S. Hint: download the whole staging repo with
> >>      wget -erobots=off -r -l inf -np -nH \
> >>
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachefluo-1003/
> >>      # note the trailing slash is needed
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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