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From Josh Elser <els...@apache.org>
Subject Re: On Fluo (was Re: [CANCEL][VOTE] Fluo Parent POM 1-incubating (rc2))
Date Wed, 03 Aug 2016 22:25:02 GMT
Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Josh Elser<elserj@apache.org>  wrote:
>
>> - I think there is a very fair point brought up by Craig/Justin/John at
>> the gray line between "Apache Fluo" and "fluo.io". However, I will say
>> that I do *not* think this is remotely close to the level that we've
>> seen in other TLPs as of late (will avoid explicit finger-pointing).
>> That said, I think the outcome that the PPMC has came to on their own as
>> next steps is healthy (see dev@fluo list). I also plan to address why
>> some of these software tools which were developed in tandem with Fluo
>> (pre-Apache) were not included with the original incubation proposal (I
>> hadn't realized they were listed on the website as they were). I would
>> venture most are unintentional omissions as the website came verbatim
>> from pre-Apache fluo.  The podling has already been responsive to my
>> nit-picks on ASF and Incubator branding requests that I put forth to
>> them.
>
> One of the things we're most concerned about with usage of our trademarks
> is project independence.  Apache projects are governed by their individual
> contributors.  There must not be another entity which exerts undue
> influence over an Apache project, and an Apache project must not unduly
> advantage a single commercial entity.
>
>      https://community.apache.org/projectIndependence.html
>
> We learned a lot from the experience of Couchbase.  Originally Couchbase
> (née CouchOne) was a great friend of Apache CouchDB, employing several
> people who made important contributions.  However, it later split away and
> became a competitor -- and by then it was too late to protest their use of
> "Couch*".  To this day, there remains confusion in the marketplace between
> CouchDB and Couchbase.  The damage to the Apache CouchDB community has
> been severe and ongoing.
>
>      http://s.apache.org/wHU
>
>      2. You need to apply branding rules consistently. We allowed Couchbase
>      (and others) to share our brand because they were seen as "friendly"
>      to the community. (And indeed, for many years, they were hugely
>      beneficial for the project.) Unfortunately, that sets precedent. And
>      it's hard to rewind precedent. It also leaves you vulnerable to the
>      possibility that they won't always be "friendly". At which point,
>      you're gonna be SOL.
>
> In response to Couchbase and several other similarly traumatic incidents,
> today we work harder to review trademark usage and protect our
> communities.  Perhaps this helps the Fluo podling to understand why
> fluo.io is receiving such attention.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>

Understood, and thanks for the time to write this down, Marvin. I'm 
happy with the podling's expedient reaction to this -- not to lessen the 
importance and severity of our branding but more that this was a 
unfortunate turn of events as the community tried to start releasing 
code at Apache.

Thanks again.

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