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From "Mattmann, Chris A (3980)" <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Pony Mail
Date Thu, 19 May 2016 19:01:54 GMT
Great job. As someone that has installed Mailman, and really liked it,
but found it super difficult, and then to see the evolution here, very
awesome. Good job, superstars.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Chief Architect
Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Director, Information Retrieval and Data Science Group (IRDS)
Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
WWW: http://irds.usc.edu/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++










On 5/19/16, 11:55 AM, "Daniel Gruno" <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:

>Hi again folks,
>I would formally like to open up a discussion on the following proposal
>for the Apache Incubator:
>
>Pretty version can be found at:
>https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PonyMailProposal
>
>
>text-only version follows:
>################################
>
>Abstract
>
>Pony Mail is a mail-archiving, archive viewing, and interaction service,
>that can be integrated with many email platforms.
>
>Proposal
>
>Background
>
>Pony Mail began as a response to two things; the lack of diversity in
>mailing list archives that are less bureaucratic all-or-nothing and more
>fluid way to interact with mailing lists than what is typically offered,
>and the lack of a performant system that solves this issue. Modern users
>of software want to jump right into a discussion they see, but cannot
>normally do so in a mailing list driven environment because of the rules
>generally surrounding said environment. Pony Mail, along with a select
>handful of newer archive systems, provides an interface that allows
>people to just hop into a thread, and take part. Without the need to
>subscribe, download the mbox archive, load it into your MTA, and
>respond.
>
>As Rich writes in a very short essay:
>
>You see a thread in which someone is WRONG ON THE INTERNET! You need to
>correct them. How do you do this today? You kinda don't. If you really
>wanted, you could download mbox files (and who the hell knows where they
>are?) and then try to get them into your mail client (which never works)
>and then reply to it. Which will break threading, because you did
>something wrong. Then you tear out your hair. PONY MAIL TO THE RESCUE!!!
>(sound of hoof beats)
>
>Rationale
>
>One of the oft-heard complaints about Apache's development model is that
>mailing lists are an old person's tool, and web-based communication -
>forums - are the way to go in the 21st Century. Providing a
>full-featured forum-like interface to mailing lists is one goal,while
>keeping all of the enormous benefits that mailing lists already provide.
>Asecond goal is to provide the ability to "jump in" to a mailing list
>conversation - even one that was a while back, without the convolutions
>that a mailing list requires. That is, to join this conversation the old
>way, one would have had to subscribe to the mailing list, download an
>mbox, and import it into ones mail client, in order that I be able to
>reply to this message with correct threading. With Pony Mail, one has to
>do none of those things, but can simply reply using the Web UI. To us,
>this is a HUGE benefit for building community. The requirement to jump
>through hoops to join a mailing list conversation drives away a lot of
>people (at least, anecdotally, it does) and if we can remove that
>barrier I think we'll have an easier time of drawing a new generation
>into our projects.
>
>Initial Goals
>
>The initial goals of transitioning to the ASF is to expand and grow both
>the Pony codebase and community, and ensure the project's continued
>growth and stability through forming a diverse and reliable community,
>in which the various facets of developers and contributors help keep the
>project up to date with latest developments and technical as well as
>social needs.
>
>Current Status
>
>    Meritocracy:
>
>The bulk of the code has been written by Daniel Gruno to date, but has
>had oversight from other committers, and mentors.
>
>    All members of the Pony project and wider community have a deep
>    understanding and appreciation for the ASF meritocracy ideals, and
>    are almost solely current ASF Members.
>
>    Community:
>        The community is currently heavily focused within the ASF, and
>        more specifically the Infrastructure group. This is to be
>        expected given the nature of how the code came into existence in
>        the first place. It should be noted that we have started
>        reaching out to other groups who we know are using mailing list
>        systems and therefore also rely on mailing list archive
>        interfaces.
>
>    Core Developers:
>        Almost all core developers are ASF members, and are already
>        intimately familiar with the Apache Way.
>
>    Alignment:
>        Pony will be very in line with ASF practices and processes as
>        many of the founding members are long term ASF members and
>        committers.
>
>Known Risks
>
>    Orphaned products:
>
>        We are not aware of any issues with orphaned products related to
>        this project. Pony Mail relies on a set of CSS3 templates as
>        well as some very stable programming languages. We have no
>        reason to believe these would be orphaned or, should they become
>        orphaned, that it would impact the development of the project.
>
>    Inexperience with Open Source:
>        Most of the current committers are already ASF members and
>        committers, we do not believe there to be any concerns around
>        OSS inexperience.
>
>    Homogenous Developers:
>        While the current mix of people involved in the project spans
>        several continents with a wide variety of skills and experience,
>        a long standing relation with the ASF applies to all committers
>        (even the non-ASF people in this proposal are intimately
>        familiar with the ASF), and we believe there to be a very
>        homogeneous culture in terms of development, IP and release
>        processes.
>
>    Reliance on Salaried Developers:
>        While two of the committers in this project are salaried
>        developers with regards to Pony, the project was founded outside
>        of corporate interests, and is primarily driven by people either
>        working for or with ties to non-profit organisations. We see no
>        issues regarding possible strong-arming or otherwise skewing
>        project focus, nor do we believe that absence of salaries would
>        deter people from committing to this project.
>
>    Relationships with Other Apache Products:
>        Pony Mail uses at least Apache HTTPd with mod_lua as its
>        end-user facing delivery mechanism. Many of the commiters are
>        also involved with this PMC.
>
>        Pony also utilises ElasticSearch which is based on Lucene.
>
>Documentation
>
>    Documentation will initially be in the source tree, and be part of
>    the initial code inclusion.
>
>Initial Source
>
>    The initial source was written under the Apache License v/2.0 from
>    the beginning, and is available at:
>
>    https://github.com/Quenda/ponymail
>
>Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
>
>    We know of no legal encumberments in the way of transfer of source
>    to Apache. Portions of the software (sans dependencies) is already
>    owned by the ASF, other portions privately, but it will be granted
>    to the ASF in its entirety.
>
>External Dependencies:
>
>    ElasticSearch backend (Apache License v/2.0)
>    Apache HTTP Server front-end with mod_lua loaded (Apache License
>v/2.0 for httpd, MIT for Lua)
>    Python 3.x for importing/archiving (PSF License)
>    Lua 5.1 or 5.2 + lua-cjson (MIT License, lua-cjson is optional)
>    Bootstrap/JQuery (MIT License)
>
>Cryptography:
>    Pony employs no cryptography other than what TLS-enabled web sites
>    served by HTTPd might use.
>
>Required Resources:
>
>    Mailing lists: It would be rude not too, given this project should
>archive them.
>
>    Subversion Directory: Nope
>
>    Git Repositories:
>        - incubator-ponymail.git - incubator-ponymail-site.git
>
>    Issue Tracking: JIRA or GitHub Issues
>
>    Other Resources: Dev stack, PoC Stack, HipChat Channel
>
>Initial Committers
>
>    - Daniel Gruno < humbedooh@apache.org >
>    - Tony Stevenson < pctony@apache.org >
>    - Richard Bowen < rbowen@apache.org >
>    - Ulises Beresi < ulises.cervino@gmail.com >
>    - David P Kendal < apache@dpk.io >
>    - Francesco Chicchiriccò - < ilgrosso@apache.org >
>
>Affiliations
>
>    Daniel Gruno - Quenda IvS
>    Tony Stevenson - pctony ltd, VocalIQ Ltd
>    Richard Bowen - Redhat, inc.
>    Ulises Beresi - Datastax, inc.
>    David P Kendal - Quenda IvS
>    Francesco Chicchiriccò - Tirasa S.r.l.
>
>Sponsors
>
>    Champion: Suneel Marthi < smarthi@apache.org >
>
>    Nominated Mentors:
>        Andrew Bayer < abayer@apache.org >
>
>    Sponsoring Entity:
>        The Apache Software Foundation
>
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