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Subject: Re: Concerted may be in need of help
From: Julian Hyde <jhyde@apache.org>
In-Reply-To: <D32BE89F.4015E%cnauroth@hortonworks.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:17:50 -0700
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 <CAOeZVic+FoGHQ=2MsESQyd7o_eSH7LiZstNMFsb-=jVjc_e17A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwFCa1d3Ag+fWC=_U6MJWTswj-_BZWdrEvAu-vbhxJfERd0Qw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ULb+vW6APYitRf0jtM-432N-idW8s9cWOrvDDss-uKgQiNHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY2PR03MB490037EF586877E5B5F8AF799F70@BY2PR03MB490.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
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 <D32BE89F.4015E%cnauroth@hortonworks.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org

I agree. I think this project has been dead for a while, and we=E2=80=99re=
 just prolonging the agony.

If we were to wind up the project, how would we proceed? A vote on =
concerted's dev list with lazy consensus, I presume?

Is there any reason why I should not start a discussion/vote right now?

Julian


> On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:50 AM, Chris Nauroth <cnauroth@hortonworks.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hello John,
>=20
> Thank you for bringing up the topic again.  As a Concerted mentor, I =
was
> planning to do the same today.
>=20
> Just to confirm your observations, you are correct that there has been =
no
> further visible progress.  The only activity on the mailing list is =
from
> the mentors asking if anything is going on and reminding the community =
to
> file their reports.  Again, there is no report.
>=20
> I'm not demanding any specific amount of activity, but complete lack =
of
> any activity sure makes it look like the podling is not viable.  I =
don't
> think there is any remaining action that could be done by either the
> mentors or the wider Incubator community to salvage it, but I'm =
certainly
> open to suggestions if anyone disagrees.
>=20
> --Chris Nauroth
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 4/7/16, 5:49 AM, "John D. Ament" <johndament@apache.org> wrote:
>=20
>> Sorry to bring back this long dead topic, but wanted to rehash what =
was
>> discussed here.
>>=20
>> We're now 3 months later, and it seems that Concerted has not =
improved.
>> is
>> it time to call it?
>>=20
>> John
>>=20
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:58 PM Ross Gardler =
<Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
>> wrote:
>>=20
>>> +1
>>>=20
>>> Everyone should read the subject and reset.
>>>=20
>>> If IPMC members having nothing better to offer than "give up" then
>>> please
>>> refrain from offering your advice to mentors asking for constructive
>>> help.
>>>=20
>>> That is not to say projects should linger, but unless mentors advise =
it
>>> we
>>> should not be interfering.
>>>=20
>>> Ross
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Julian Hyde<mailto:jhyde@apache.org>
>>> Sent: ?1/?9/?2016 12:37 PM
>>> To: =
general@incubator.apache.org<mailto:general@incubator.apache.org>
>>> Subject: Re: Concerted may be in need of help
>>>=20
>>> (Removing dev@concerted from the To: list.)
>>>=20
>>> Good grief. No one is suggesting there should be "steady activity
>>> requirement". I and other Concerted mentors just have a hunch that =
the
>>> project isn't doing well, and thought it would be better to bring =
our
>>> concerns to this list earlier rather than later. Let's not turn it
>>> into a debate over policy. If anyone can think of ways to help this
>>> project, then we'd love to hear your ideas. If you can't think of =
ways
>>> to help the project, or don't think the project needs to be helped,
>>> then don't help.
>>>=20
>>> Julian
>>>=20
>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 12:21 PM, William A Rowe Jr =
<wrowe@rowe-clan.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Chris Nauroth
>>> <cnauroth@hortonworks.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> As a Concerted mentor, I agree with the concern about lack of
>>> activity.  I
>>>>> think this was a difficult month for the project considering both =
the
>>>>> general drop in participation and the typical drop in activity =
that
>>> we
>>>>> should expect to happen around the end-of-year holidays.  The =
monthly
>>>>> reporting schedule implicitly requires that an incubating project
>>> show
>>>>> some kind of demonstrable progress month-to-month.  Still, other
>>> podlings
>>>>> did manage to sustain activity and complete a report during this
>>> time.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I see John has already raised concern about lack of activity in =
the
>>>>> mentor/shepherd notes.  I just seconded that myself.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Can we consider giving the PPMC a chance to reset and aim to
>>> re-establish
>>>>> steady activity this month?
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> What is the steady activity requirement that has been injected into
>>>> incubation?
>>>>=20
>>>> There are plenty of examples of projects that have enjoyed months =
and
>>> some
>>>> years of lull between bursts of activity, usually around new
>>> requirements
>>>> and
>>>> interests by patch submittors or committers.
>>>>=20
>>>> By this reconning, there have been a number of times measured in
>>> weeks or
>>>> months that the httpd and tomcat projects should have been folded.
>>> Do we
>>>> really believe that a steady state of activity is healthy?  On the
>>>> contrary, it
>>>> is the bursts of new activity that lead our projects into new and
>>>> interesting
>>>> territory, not an n commits/mo target.
>>>>=20
>>>> That said, we don't want podlings to linger here; release early,
>>> release
>>>> often,
>>>> demonstrate that new contributors are recognized as =
committers/[p]pmc
>>>> members, and show us [incubator] that there isn't much more =
mentorship
>>>> required for the effort to proceed in the model of the ASF.  A =
project
>>> that
>>>> cannot get to a point of release in some reasonable time, e.g. a =
year
>>> or
>>>> two, or who takes down their shingle and announces they can't =
attract
>>> a
>>>> three+ community to sustain their effort, such projects should be
>>> retired.
>>>=20
>>> =
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>>>=20
>>>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20


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