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From Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Johnzon from the Incubator
Date Mon, 04 Apr 2016 22:40:25 GMT
My suggestion would be to work on building community first.

Not pulling in new committers and PMC members is evidence of a serious
community bug. It could be lack of marketing, unfriendly natives,
cliquishness or an idea that just doesn't have legs. Probably it is
something I didn't think of.

In any case, it would be a really good idea for the current community to
show that they can deal with this problem so we don't wind up with a
top-level project that doesn't work.

Also, even though I have no idea if it is a reasonable outcome, you should
always explore the question of where the overhead of a top-level Apache
project is even the appropriate outcome. Such a self-examination is always
a bit hard and can be very emotionally overloaded, but it is important to
stop for a moment to consider what the best outcome for the project, the
users of the project and the members of the project really is. For some
projects, graduation as a small TLP is right. For somewhat more projects,
transition to a non-Apache project structure is right.

In most cases, however, it really is best to slog a bit longer and get good
at building up the community.






On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Jean-Louis MONTEIRO <jeanouii@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So, what are the next steps?
>
> Do we have to postpone the graduation and try to bring up more contributors
> before?
> Or do we want to still graduate and work out the community growth after?
>
> Jean-Louis
>
>
>
> Le lun. 4 avr. 2016 à 02:50, Niall Pemberton <niall.pemberton@gmail.com> a
> écrit :
>
> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:54 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Niali,
> >>
> >> I don't disagree with your assessment.  In actuality, Johnzon has only
> >> added one committer in its 22 months in the incubator, who later joined
> >> their PPMC and is now slated to be their VP.  However, adding committers
> >> isn't the only form of community growth we expect to see when
> graduating.
> >> JIRA tickets, user input and seeing the developers interact on the
> various
> >> lists are also taken into account.
> >>
> >
> >
> >> The fact that the podling has some potential new committers in the
> >> pipeline
> >> is also great to hear.
> >>
> >> The minimum viable project is three PMC members.  Johnzon is a bit
> bigger
> >> than that.  You also have to keep in mind that there are some projects
> >> that
> >> are just gigantic.  Not every project needs to match that structure.
> >>
> >
> > I did some more research and looked at the proposed PMC participation in
> > the 10 Johnzon release votes (see attachment) and there are four active
> > members. I will withdraw my vote, but I think Johnzon with 4 people and
> > only 2 really active on the code is borderline and it needs to recruit
> more
> > people to be sustainable long term.
> >
> > Niall
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM Niall Pemberton <
> niall.pemberton@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Mark Struberg
> <struberg@yahoo.de.invalid
> >> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Please look at more current data
> >> > >
> >> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-johnzon/graphs/contributors
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I didn't see your commits today - but otherwise doesn't look alot
> >> > difference.
> >> >
> >> > Also note that there are patches applied from contributors via Jira
> >> patches
> >> > > and NOT via git-pull. Thus they show not up in the graph above.
> >> > >
> >> > > From that category we have Reinhard Sandtner (apacheId rsandtner)
> >> which
> >> > is
> >> > > closely looked for as potential committer and Karl Grosse (also on
> our
> >> > > watch list). Both provided patches and contributed in hacking
> >> sessions.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Thats great, but I agree with the  June, Sept & Dec 2015 board reports
> >> > about growing the committers/ppmc - and I don't understand why that
> was
> >> > reported as a graduation requirement and now its not and Johnzon is
> >> ready?
> >> >
> >> > Niall
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > LieGrue,
> >> > > strub
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > On Sunday, 3 April 2016, 20:18, Niall Pemberton <
> >> > > niall.pemberton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > Johnzon reports for June, Sept & Dec 2015 all listed
"adding new
> >> > > > committers/pmc members" in the "most important issues to address
> in
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > move towards graduation" - but in that time there were no changes
> to
> >> > the
> >> > > > community. So what changed to make the ppmc/mentors now think
the
> >> > project
> >> > > > is ready to graduate?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Johnzon has added Hendrik Saly as a committer/ppmc member (Aug
> 2014
> >> /
> >> > Apr
> >> > > > 2015), but of the 6 original committers listed on the original
> >> > proposal,
> >> > > > only 3 are on proposed TLP, so the statement in the Maturity
model
> >> > saying
> >> > > > "List of commmitters and PPMC members has grown during incubation"
> >> is
> >> > > > a bit
> >> > > > misleading.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > From looking at commits, there are only 2 active people[1] and
for
> >> me
> >> > > thats
> >> > > > a concern for the projects long term viability and so my vote
is
> -1
> >> to
> >> > > > graduation.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > [1]
> http://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.fleece.commits
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Niall
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Hendrik Dev <
> hendrikdev22@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >>  The Apache Johnzon community has discussed and voted on
> >> graduation to
> >> > > >>  a top level project. The vote passed with 8 +1 votes (5
from the
> >> > PPMC)
> >> > > >>  and no 0 or -1 votes.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  Incubation Status:
> >> > > >>  http://incubator.apache.org/projects/johnzon.html
> >> > > >>  Maturity Assessment:
> >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/d88S
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >>  Discussions:
> >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/5vxO
> >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/8VkX
> >> > > >>  Vote:
> >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/suuK
> >> > > >>  (http://markmail.org/message/mawumtfqokgye5xn)
> >> > > >>  Result:
> >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/Erd0
> >> > > >>  (http://markmail.org/message/qmqvk56ccqkq2gob)
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  Please vote on the resolution pasted below to graduate Apache
> >> Johnzon
> >> > > >>  from the incubator to top level project.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  [ ] +1 Graduate Apache Johnzon from the Incubator.
> >> > > >>  [ ] +0 Don't care.
> >> > > >>  [ ] -1 Don't graduate Apache Johnzon from the Incubator
because
> >> ...
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  This vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  Many thanks to our mentors and everyone else for the support,
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  Hendrik Saly on behalf of the Apache Johnzon PPMC
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon top-level project resolution:
> >> > > >>  ============================================
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >> > > >>  interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >> > > >>  Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >> > > >>  Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >> > > >>  open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >> > > >>  the public, related to JSR-353 compliant JSON parsing and
a
> >> > > >>  set of useful modules to help with the usage of JSR-353
> >> > > >>  as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related JSRs
> >> > > >>  (like JSR-367).
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >> > > >>  Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Johnzon Project",
> >> > > >>  be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >> > > >>  Foundation; and be it further
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and hereby
is
> >> > > >>  responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >> > > >>  related to JSR-353 compliant JSON parsing and a
> >> > > >>  set of useful modules to help with the usage of JSR-353
> >> > > >>  as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related JSRs
> >> > > >>  (like JSR-367); and be it further
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Johnzon"
be
> >> > > >>  and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >> > > >>  serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the
chair
> >> > > >>  of the Apache Johnzon Project, and to have primary
> responsibility
> >> > > >>  for management of the projects within the scope of
> >> > > >>  responsibility of the Apache Johnzon Project; and be it
further
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >> > > >>  hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of
the
> >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon Project:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  * Justin Mclean <jmclean AT apache.org>
> >> > > >>  * Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau AT apache.org>
> >> > > >>  * Jean-Louis Monteiro <jlmonteiro AT apache.org>
> >> > > >>  * Mark Struberg <struberg AT apache.org>
> >> > > >>  * Hendrik Saly <salyh AT apache.org>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Hendrik Saly
> (salyh)
> >> > > >>  be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Johnzon,
to
> >> > > >>  serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of
the
> >> > > >>  Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
> >> > > >>  death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
> >> > > >>  or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Johnzon PMC be and hereby
is
> >> > > >>  tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >> > > >>  encourage open development and increased participation in
the
> >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon Project; and be it further
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and hereby
> >> > > >>  is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
Apache
> >> > > >>  Incubator Johnzon podling; and be it further
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >> > > >>  Incubator Johnzon podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >> > > >>  Project are hereafter discharged.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  --
> >> > > >>  Hendrik Saly (salyh, hendrikdev22)
> >> > > >>  @hendrikdev22
> >> > > >>  PGP: 0x22D7F6EC
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
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> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
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> >> >
> >>
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