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From Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Johnzon from the Incubator
Date Tue, 05 Apr 2016 05:56:50 GMT
Le 5 avr. 2016 05:16, "John D. Ament" <johndament@apache.org> a écrit :
>
> I have to agree with Ted's synopsis.  After reviewing the podling's
> proposal compared to current date, it seems that there's actually been a
> dramatic decrease in committers since inception.  I didn't realize that
> when originally looking.
>
> I do however want to clarify - I think Johnzon is mature.  The PPMC
> understands the apache way and has done a great job in incubation.
>
> I think I pitched this, a long while ago, but would it be a bad move to
> graduate into a sub-project under TomEE or Geronimo?  AFAIK, everyone but
> Hendrik is already on those PMCs.
>

Well, Johnzon is about JSON so wider than EE for ASF and johnzon community
is as big and more active than those projects so not sure. Also Johnzon
relies on > 3 people belonging to >= 3 companies which is very sane
compared to some other projects. On johnzon side we fix bugs very quickly
maybe not opening the door enough to contributions but not sure it is a bad
community sign. Finally being partly a EE project activity is expected to
not be as constant as some other projects IMO.

> John
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:41 PM Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My suggestion would be to work on building community first.
> >
> > Not pulling in new committers and PMC members is evidence of a serious
> > community bug. It could be lack of marketing, unfriendly natives,
> > cliquishness or an idea that just doesn't have legs. Probably it is
> > something I didn't think of.
> >
> > In any case, it would be a really good idea for the current community to
> > show that they can deal with this problem so we don't wind up with a
> > top-level project that doesn't work.
> >
> > Also, even though I have no idea if it is a reasonable outcome, you
should
> > always explore the question of where the overhead of a top-level Apache
> > project is even the appropriate outcome. Such a self-examination is
always
> > a bit hard and can be very emotionally overloaded, but it is important
to
> > stop for a moment to consider what the best outcome for the project, the
> > users of the project and the members of the project really is. For some
> > projects, graduation as a small TLP is right. For somewhat more
projects,
> > transition to a non-Apache project structure is right.
> >
> > In most cases, however, it really is best to slog a bit longer and get
good
> > at building up the community.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Jean-Louis MONTEIRO <jeanouii@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > So, what are the next steps?
> > >
> > > Do we have to postpone the graduation and try to bring up more
> > contributors
> > > before?
> > > Or do we want to still graduate and work out the community growth
after?
> > >
> > > Jean-Louis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le lun. 4 avr. 2016 à 02:50, Niall Pemberton <
niall.pemberton@gmail.com>
> > a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:54 PM, John D. Ament <
johndament@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Niali,
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't disagree with your assessment.  In actuality, Johnzon has
only
> > > >> added one committer in its 22 months in the incubator, who later
> > joined
> > > >> their PPMC and is now slated to be their VP.  However, adding
> > committers
> > > >> isn't the only form of community growth we expect to see when
> > > graduating.
> > > >> JIRA tickets, user input and seeing the developers interact on the
> > > various
> > > >> lists are also taken into account.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> The fact that the podling has some potential new committers in the
> > > >> pipeline
> > > >> is also great to hear.
> > > >>
> > > >> The minimum viable project is three PMC members.  Johnzon is a bit
> > > bigger
> > > >> than that.  You also have to keep in mind that there are some
projects
> > > >> that
> > > >> are just gigantic.  Not every project needs to match that
structure.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I did some more research and looked at the proposed PMC
participation
> > in
> > > > the 10 Johnzon release votes (see attachment) and there are four
active
> > > > members. I will withdraw my vote, but I think Johnzon with 4 people
and
> > > > only 2 really active on the code is borderline and it needs to
recruit
> > > more
> > > > people to be sustainable long term.
> > > >
> > > > Niall
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> John
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM Niall Pemberton <
> > > niall.pemberton@gmail.com
> > > >> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Mark Struberg
> > > <struberg@yahoo.de.invalid
> > > >> >
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Please look at more current data
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-johnzon/graphs/contributors
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I didn't see your commits today - but otherwise doesn't look
alot
> > > >> > difference.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Also note that there are patches applied from contributors via
Jira
> > > >> patches
> > > >> > > and NOT via git-pull. Thus they show not up in the graph
above.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > From that category we have Reinhard Sandtner (apacheId
rsandtner)
> > > >> which
> > > >> > is
> > > >> > > closely looked for as potential committer and Karl Grosse
(also on
> > > our
> > > >> > > watch list). Both provided patches and contributed in hacking
> > > >> sessions.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thats great, but I agree with the  June, Sept & Dec 2015
board
> > reports
> > > >> > about growing the committers/ppmc - and I don't understand why
that
> > > was
> > > >> > reported as a graduation requirement and now its not and Johnzon
is
> > > >> ready?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Niall
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > LieGrue,
> > > >> > > strub
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > On Sunday, 3 April 2016, 20:18, Niall Pemberton <
> > > >> > > niall.pemberton@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > > > Johnzon reports for June, Sept & Dec 2015
all listed
"adding
> > new
> > > >> > > > committers/pmc members" in the "most important issues
to
address
> > > in
> > > >> > > > the
> > > >> > > > move towards graduation" - but in that time there were
no
> > changes
> > > to
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > > > community. So what changed to make the ppmc/mentors
now think
> > the
> > > >> > project
> > > >> > > > is ready to graduate?
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Johnzon has added Hendrik Saly as a committer/ppmc
member
(Aug
> > > 2014
> > > >> /
> > > >> > Apr
> > > >> > > > 2015), but of the 6 original committers listed on the
original
> > > >> > proposal,
> > > >> > > > only 3 are on proposed TLP, so the statement in the
Maturity
> > model
> > > >> > saying
> > > >> > > > "List of commmitters and PPMC members has grown during
> > incubation"
> > > >> is
> > > >> > > > a bit
> > > >> > > > misleading.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > From looking at commits, there are only 2 active people[1]
and
> > for
> > > >> me
> > > >> > > thats
> > > >> > > > a concern for the projects long term viability and
so my
vote is
> > > -1
> > > >> to
> > > >> > > > graduation.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > [1]
> > > http://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.fleece.commits
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Niall
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Hendrik Dev <
> > > hendrikdev22@gmail.com
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >>  The Apache Johnzon community has discussed and
voted on
> > > >> graduation to
> > > >> > > >>  a top level project. The vote passed with 8 +1
votes (5
from
> > the
> > > >> > PPMC)
> > > >> > > >>  and no 0 or -1 votes.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  Incubation Status:
> > > >> > > >>  http://incubator.apache.org/projects/johnzon.html
> > > >> > > >>  Maturity Assessment:
> > > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/d88S
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >>  Discussions:
> > > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/5vxO
> > > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/8VkX
> > > >> > > >>  Vote:
> > > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/suuK
> > > >> > > >>  (http://markmail.org/message/mawumtfqokgye5xn)
> > > >> > > >>  Result:
> > > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/Erd0
> > > >> > > >>  (http://markmail.org/message/qmqvk56ccqkq2gob)
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  Please vote on the resolution pasted below to
graduate
Apache
> > > >> Johnzon
> > > >> > > >>  from the incubator to top level project.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  [ ] +1 Graduate Apache Johnzon from the Incubator.
> > > >> > > >>  [ ] +0 Don't care.
> > > >> > > >>  [ ] -1 Don't graduate Apache Johnzon from the
Incubator
> > because
> > > >> ...
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  This vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  Many thanks to our mentors and everyone else for
the
support,
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  Hendrik Saly on behalf of the Apache Johnzon PPMC
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon top-level project resolution:
> > > >> > > >>  ============================================
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be
in the best
> > > >> > > >>  interests of the Foundation and consistent with
the
> > > >> > > >>  Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > >> > > >>  Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of
> > > >> > > >>  open-source software, for distribution at no charge
to
> > > >> > > >>  the public, related to JSR-353 compliant JSON
parsing and a
> > > >> > > >>  set of useful modules to help with the usage of
JSR-353
> > > >> > > >>  as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related
JSRs
> > > >> > > >>  (like JSR-367).
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project
Management
> > > >> > > >>  Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Johnzon
Project",
> > > >> > > >>  be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws
of the
> > > >> > > >>  Foundation; and be it further
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and
hereby is
> > > >> > > >>  responsible for the creation and maintenance of
software
> > > >> > > >>  related to JSR-353 compliant JSON parsing and
a
> > > >> > > >>  set of useful modules to help with the usage of
JSR-353
> > > >> > > >>  as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related
JSRs
> > > >> > > >>  (like JSR-367); and be it further
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President,
Apache
Johnzon"
> > be
> > > >> > > >>  and hereby is created, the person holding such
office to
> > > >> > > >>  serve at the direction of the Board of Directors
as the
chair
> > > >> > > >>  of the Apache Johnzon Project, and to have primary
> > > responsibility
> > > >> > > >>  for management of the projects within the scope
of
> > > >> > > >>  responsibility of the Apache Johnzon Project;
and be it
> > further
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately
below be and
> > > >> > > >>  hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members
of the
> > > >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon Project:
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  * Justin Mclean <jmclean AT apache.org>
> > > >> > > >>  * Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau AT apache.org>
> > > >> > > >>  * Jean-Louis Monteiro <jlmonteiro AT apache.org>
> > > >> > > >>  * Mark Struberg <struberg AT apache.org>
> > > >> > > >>  * Hendrik Saly <salyh AT apache.org>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Hendrik
Saly
> > > (salyh)
> > > >> > > >>  be appointed to the office of Vice President,
Apache
Johnzon,
> > to
> > > >> > > >>  serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
of
the
> > > >> > > >>  Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation
until
> > > >> > > >>  death, resignation, retirement, removal or
disqualification,
> > > >> > > >>  or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Johnzon PMC
be and
hereby is
> > > >> > > >>  tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
to
> > > >> > > >>  encourage open development and increased participation
in
the
> > > >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon Project; and be it further
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and
hereby
> > > >> > > >>  is tasked with the migration and rationalization
of the
Apache
> > > >> > > >>  Incubator Johnzon podling; and be it further
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining
to the
Apache
> > > >> > > >>  Incubator Johnzon podling encumbered upon the
Apache
Incubator
> > > >> > > >>  Project are hereafter discharged.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>  --
> > > >> > > >>  Hendrik Saly (salyh, hendrikdev22)
> > > >> > > >>  @hendrikdev22
> > > >> > > >>  PGP: 0x22D7F6EC
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >>
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