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From Marvin Humphrey <>
Subject Re: Help for the Log4cxx podling
Date Thu, 07 Jan 2016 03:59:25 GMT
On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:37 PM, John D. Ament <> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I happened to stumble upon the log4cxx mailing list where there is concern
> over mentor participation.  It appears that they may need help, more mentor
> participation to help get reports through.
> They're a small podling, so I'm wondering if there's ways to help them out?
> It seems like Christian G was their main mentor, but he may be a bit busy
> right now.

Christian is a great guy and if it were possible for him to stay on as Mentor
he would -- but he has effectively resigned.  I have now taken the liberty of
removing his name from the log4cxx2 project page and from podlings.xml.

People come and go in open source.  Apache podlings and projects have to be
able to adapt.

That leaves only Scott Deboy listed as Mentor, who is not heavily involved in
the Incubator.  The log4cxx reports have not been getting Mentor signoff,
which is why this has come to a head.

What we need to do first is review the why log4cxx wound up in the Incubator
and assess what the desired end state is.  This is an unusual podling in that
it originated with an existing Apache subproject.  Here's an excerpt from the
proposal to re-enter the Incubator:

    The original developers of the project went inactive and the project was
    not maintained for quite a while. The Logging PMC thought about moving the
    project to the attic but a few users were objecting.

    This proposal is to create a new community around Log4cxx.

So, has this happened?  Has a healthy Apache community emerged which is
self-governing and self-sustaining?

If not, what do we do?  If we retire the podling, does the project go into the
Attic?  Does it become the Logging PMC's problem again (which seems wrong)?

In my view, the podling contributors need to step up and make the case stay in
incubation, then recruit new Mentors.  A podling which does not have active
Mentors cannot remain in incubation.

One significant statistic: there have been no releases since 2008.  Here's a
comment that was left when someone opened a JIRA issue asking for a release:

    While I can totally understand your wish, I consider JIRA the wrong place
    for discussing such things and therefore close this issue. The user
    mailing list is the better place but even there it's likely that I would
    be the only one answering that I'm currently unable to do a release
    because I simply lack the time, knowledge and maybe even tools to do so.

    So if you need current src, just check it out from SVN and let us deal
    with things don't working this way on the user mailing list.

This is not acceptable.  Apache projects *must* make official releases and
they must direct users towards those releases and not towards raw version

The community has one active developer as far as I can tell, and at least he
is responding to user inquiries when they come in.  But one developer does not
make an Apache community.

The project has had a long and successful run, but I think the time has come
for Log4CXX to consider retiring and heading to the Attic.

PS: I have CC'd this message to log4cxx-dev@logging.apache after first
    subscribing to ensure that the message does not get stuck in an untended
    moderation queue.  Anyone who wants to participate in this thread, I urge
    that you subscribe to general@incubator.

Marvin Humphrey

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