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From Roman Shaposhnik <>
Subject Re: Shepherd Shortage for December Report
Date Thu, 03 Dec 2015 02:01:14 GMT
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 5:21 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <> wrote:
>> On Dec 2, 2015, at 5:53 PM, Marvin Humphrey <> wrote:
>> It's not a concern -- it's a blessing. The shepherd institution needs to die.
> Then I'd say let it die. My only concern is that that it offers a way for non-members
> entry path to the ipmc. If we eliminate it, there should be an alternative for new IPMC
> candidates to show interest and demonstrate merit.

FWIW: I feel like there's plenty of way to generate that kind of merit: release
reviews, report reviews, helping on podling MLs.

>> There's been a shepherd shortage for years. What happened this month
>> is that I took a bunch of people who were effectively inactive out of
>> the shepherd rolls, so their absence is more obvious at the top of the
>> report.
>> The expectation that it is shepherds who review and comment on podling
>> reports, rather than Mentors, is harmful.
> That seems like a problem with documentation of the shepherd role -- and varying degrees
of individual interpretations.
> I see a lot of podlings with deadbeat mentors (e.g. Ones that offer to mentor a proposal,
> then go dark until graduation and suddenly reappear). I think we need a way to address
> that. If mentors are absent, what's the fallback if there are no shepherds?
> Is it the IPMC self-policing such things?

I absolutely agree with you here. But IPMC has been through this conversation
before and we all... well I guess we agreed to disagree. Even if we agree on
trusting the mentors 100% to stay engaged, there's still an issue of mentors
going "native" within a project. There *has* to be an independent view point
injected. That's what shepherd role is to me. Somebody who'd have time
to actually poke around not just read the report.


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