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From Niall Pemberton <niall.pember...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Mentor disengagement - a suggestion
Date Thu, 05 Nov 2015 03:36:21 GMT
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:17 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
wrote:

> Hi Justin,
>
> Just to clarify.
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:54 AM Justin Erenkrantz <justin@erenkrantz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I will just note that I disagree with adding bureaucracy like this.
> > We already require podlings to submit reports as frequently as
> > monthly.  (Geode somehow had to report monthly for no discernible
> > reason.)
> >
>
> It was requested that Geode provide an extra report as they did not report
> for their first 3 months.  New podlings, new TLPs are all required to
> report monthly to the (board/IPMC) as a way to ensure they're getting
> started properly.  Roman agreed with the request and they reported 1 extra
> month.
>

Geode only produced 2 monthly reports[1] (not their fault, they were
mis-informed) and were asked to produce another report the month after they
missed the 3rd report. After that the Geode community themselves decided
they thought continuing on a monthly cycle was a useful exercise[2].

[1] http://markmail.org/message/i3b53c6q5popgfum
[2] http://markmail.org/message/wovzpw55yryyxgqn

Niall



> >
> > This further adds to the burden on being a mentor - probably to
> > something like being a teacher enforcing a pedagogical structure on
> > the podlings.  I don't think that is what we should be striving for.
> > For the two podlings I currently mentor (Geode and HAWQ), I keep an
> > eye on the mailing lists and try to ensure that any process questions
> > that are raised are addressed.  In the early days of Geode, there was
> > a bit of that - less so now as the community is finding its way.  HAWQ
> > seems to be doing well - nothing surprising that I can tell so far.
> >
> > I believe in a "big tent" foundation - we should welcome new projects
> > of any stripe.  If they fail within the Incubator to graduate, so be
> > it.  But, that is separate from asking the mentors to somehow be
> > "responsible" for the podlings.  I have an interest to see them
> > succeed, but if it doesn't, *shrug* and we move on.  I don't see any
> > value in adding more bureaucracy as it will further sap any motivation
> > to truly "mentor" projects.  I view the mentor as someone that can be
> > called upon, but doesn't necessarily require active involvement on a
> > daily basis.  If I wanted that, I would be a committer to the project.
> > Let's not confuse the two.
> >
> > My $.02.  -- justin
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Rich Bowen <rbowen@rcbowen.com> wrote:
> > > Fellow mentors,
> > >
> > > There was a conversation at ApacheCon about the Incubator. I'll leave
> it
> > to
> > > the other participants to champion the particular parts that they are
> > > passionate about, but I was particularly concerned with mentor
> > > disengagement, and suggestions for improving it.
> > >
> > > A mentor's role is to help a project learn the ropes at the ASF, and
> that
> > > mentor might not necessarily be deeply versed in the particular
> > technology
> > > that the podling works with. As such, it can frequently be the case
> that
> > the
> > > mentor becomes disengaged from the daily conversation of the lists, and
> > > eventually with the entire process.
> > >
> > > As a means of refocusing the mentors' efforts, and keeping them
> engaged,
> > I'd
> > > like to encourage each mentor (or group of mentors) to consider
> writing a
> > > running report (ie, evolving, updated every quarter) based on
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html
> > > where they evaluate each point on the maturity model, as a path towards
> > > graduation. This gives a concrete target, and a lens through which to
> > view
> > > the podling's progress towards that target.
> > >
> > > This could be kept in the incubator wiki, and linked from the official
> > > project report, or it could be maintained just for your own benefit. I
> > think
> > > it would be particularly useful to attach to a graduation
> > recommendation, as
> > > a sign that the recommendation is more than just checking the various
> > boxes,
> > > but is a glowing endorsement of the project's readiness to be TLP.
> > >
> > > As a side-note, I'd also encourage mentors who are mentors in name
> only,
> > and
> > > not reality, to consider cleaning up the paperwork by removing
> themselves
> > > from the roster. It doesn't look great when a podling can't get mentor
> > > signoff on their reports.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
> > > http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
> > >
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> > >
> >
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> >
> >
>

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