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From Sravya Tirukkovalur <sra...@cloudera.com>
Subject Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation
Date Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:55:04 GMT
I like Roman's idea of filling out the maturity model template, I too think
that might help get a holistic view . I can volunteer to do it as a sentry
community member if needed.

And let me take a stab at which of these I think we did for growing the
community.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > In my experience "growing the community" is hard. It's very easy to say,
> > hard to do.
>
> Agreed -- and that why so many podlings put so much effort into it over the
> course of incubation and find it a challenging hurdle to overcome.  When a
> project enters incubation, its core developers should expect that they are
> going to do a lot less coding and a lot more recruitment and community
> management for a long while.
>
> *   Raising awareness of the product through talks, articles, etc.
>

Sentry community members have given talks at major conferences like
ApacheCon, Hadoop World and so on. We also hosted Sentry Meetups around the
globe. One of my favorites is in India, where there were around 100
participants. We also wrote a few blog posts to make it easy to digest
information on latest features. And we also continuously improve on our
website and wiki pages.

*   Writing up "how to contribute" documents.
>
We have an excellent "how to contribute" page, which we continuously
improve on. A lot of new comers have used the doc to make their first
Apache contribution, which I am very proud of, as I believe the first
commit is the major step in the journey. I know of at least few
contributors who have used the doc and also have contributed back to the
doc with what they saw as gaps.

*   Teeing up easy starter issues.
>

We do have a newbie label that we use to mark easy to fix jiras. I agree
that it is hard to keep up with tagging all relevant jiras, but we try to
do our best. And try to revisit when ever there is a new contributor trying
to look for jiras to pick up.


> *   Responding to any contributions quickly and thoroughly.
>
This is an ongoing thing and I think Sentry community has been good here.
Although, I think we should continually strive to decrease the waiting time.


> *   Involving the community in development discussions.
>

>From what I see, depending on how much clarity we have on a new idea: Folks
either prefer to discuss on dev list or open a jira and have discussion on
the jira. The discussion continues through review board until the patch is
committed (even after in fact).

*   Engaging contributors and collaborating with them to develop *their*
> ideas
>     through code review, constructive feedback, freewheeling design
>     discussions, being flexible about integrating new ideas, and so on.
>

Ideas have been proposed by various developers in the past and have went
through a very healthy cycle of code reviews, feedbacks, refactoring,
testing and committing.


*   Ensuring that the codebase is easy to approach (builds easily, well
>     commented, etc.)
>
> Yes. I would not say Sentry is the most well commented project on earth
and but we do have contributors who care about project quality and
maintainability and we strive to always improve on that front.

There's a lot of stuff we can do to grow communities, and though it's
> always a
> lot of work, the techniques are reasonably well understood around Apache by
> now.  How much of that has Sentry done?  And where in the "open source
> funnel" has there been the greatest narrowing?
>
> 1.  People hear about the product.
> 2.  People download, install, and try out the product.
> 3.  People keep using the product, becoming users.
> 4.  Users offer up their first patches, becoming contributors.
> 5.  Contributors get invited to become committers.
> 6.  Committers get invited to become (P)PMC members.
>
> While it might be "artificial" to consider promoting three committers who
> may
> or may not be ready, it's reasonable to ask, how much have the senior
> members
> of the Sentry community invested in developing those three contributors,
> and
> have there been other contributors who have been lost along the way?
>
> But getting three new committers is actually pretty great!  So how about
> the
> Sentry community focuses in on those three and asks, if we believe they are
> not yet ready, what can we do to facilitate their development and get them
> to
> the point where they *are* ready?  Because if one or more becomes a PPMC
> member that the rest of the community has full confidence in, the "grow the
> community" critieria will be satisfied in both letter and spirit.
>
>
We actually have not 3 but 7 new committers! And IMO, we have 3 candidates
for PPMC, who for various reasons I thought (IMO) were not ready a few
months back but now I believe they are. I would be more than happy to start
the discussion on private and give out details there.

One question on discussing candidature of a person for PPMC on private:
I know that private is only for PPMC, but I believe the new elected PPMC
can always get the digest for older messages (or not?). If that is the case
wouldn't it defeat the purpose of having these discussions on private?

Hope this helps,
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
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-- 
Sravya Tirukkovalur

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