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From Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation
Date Sat, 07 Nov 2015 03:48:28 GMT
My belief is that committer != PMC is the ideal choice, based on my long
history of watching communities at the ASF. It allows for onboarding
committers rapidly and with a lower bar. That helps to draw them further
into the community, reduces the workload of others (who would otherwise
need to review/apply their work), and provides a mechanism to review
bringing them onto the PMC.

As Greg Reddin notes, separation of the two roles provides a mechanism for
distinguishing between "enable contributions" and "enable governance". As
an old-timer, I've observed (unfortunately) too many problems in
governance. An extra step is advisable (with a higher bar, while keeping
the low bar for contributions).

Cheers,
-g


On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org
> wrote:

> I think there is a difference between what TLPs do and what the
> recommended approach for Podlings is.
>
> My impression, based on limited podling experience, is that the default
> tends to be PPMC == committer.
>
> Thanks for raising the notion of looking at why committers are *not* moved
> to the PMC of a TLP after some period of time, though.  My question, as a
> PMC member, would be whether or not we are holding the reins too tight at
> the expense of both community and sustainability.  An useful danger sign,
> that.
>
>  - Dennis
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Greg Reddin [mailto:gredbug@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 06:22
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and
> > graduation
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Rich Bowen <rbowen@rcbowen.com> wrote:
> > > On 11/05/2015 12:02 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > >> Committership is the right to do work on the project. PMC membership
> > is the
> > >> right to participate in governance.  People left in the nebulous
> > state
> > >> between
> > >> committership and PMC membership for long periods of time more than
> > likely
> > >> will give up in frustration for not being trusted enough to govern
> > their
> > >> own work.
> > >
> > >
> > > Most of the older projects at the Foundation do not have PMC ==
> > > Committer. Notably, httpd. The notion that committers are
> > automatically
> > > PMC is a fairly new innovation. As it happens, it's an innovation that
> > I
> > > wholeheartedly support and recommend, but it's a minority of projects
> > > that have this policy. If you follow board reports, you'll notice that
> > > PMC additions and Committer additions are seldom coincident.
> >
> > In further support of Joe's point, for most of the projects I've been
> > involved with, the PMC promotion was almost automatic and occurred
> > within about 6 months of committership. The committer-only period was
> > just a probationary period to make sure a person was not going to
> > abuse his/her privileges. An invite to committership comes with an
> > unspoken assumption that we want you to help govern the project, but
> > let's start with giving you access. I don't know that I ever saw
> > anyone stay as committer-only for an extended period of time.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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