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From Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Apache Metrics, Not Apache Humans
Date Sun, 15 Nov 2015 22:58:06 GMT
> Because of Apache Infrastructure's centralized server model (email lists,
version control, distributions, homepages, etc.), it  has the ability to
gather metrics such as, for example, the distribution of pushes to the
repository, the branch factor of the mailing list, the centrality of the
project in the Central Maven repository dependency graph, the number of
non-sequisters (dead-end conversations) in the email chain, the length of
discussions in JIRA, etc. etc.

Does anyone have any statistically significant measure that any of those
"measurables" define the health of a community?

> Which metrics are important? Who care -- just make up things to glean
from the wealth of information you already have access to. Watch...

"Who care".

"Just make up things".

WTH. Yeah, I thought not.

> Next, the Apache members subjectively say which projects they think are
"good" (healthy).
> [...]
​> From here, all Apache projects have a computed "healthy" score(s) and
when users go to download, lets say, Lucene, they go: "Cool. This is a
healthy project." (it has a HEALTH.txt file distributed with it, lets say).

​That file should not be named HEALTH.txt, ​it should be called
POPULARITY_CONTEST_WINNERS.txt.

What is wrong with, for the most part, allowing communities to define their
own success? Why do we have to pick "best"?

Why should every project community not picked as "best" by the membership
not then respond with an immediate and hearty "fuck you"?

I'm sorry, but this reads as a collection of frighteningly terrible ideas
that I hope die as quickly as possible.


On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Marko Rodriguez <okrammarko@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was talking with Daniel Gruno and wrote the following ideas to him. Note
> that these are just ideas and not based on any real momentary issue or
> concern -- though a more general concern about how Apache should evolve.
>
> Apache should NOT use a binary "podling" / "top-level" model. All projects
> should simply have a "health score" and that health score is derived from
> measurables. Because of Apache Infrastructure's centralized server model
> (email lists, version control, distributions, homepages, etc.), it  has the
> ability to gather metrics such as, for example, the distribution of pushes
> to the repository, the branch factor of the mailing list, the centrality of
> the project in the Central Maven repository dependency graph, the number of
> non-sequisters (dead-end conversations) in the email chain, the length of
> discussions in JIRA, etc. etc. Which metrics are important? Who care --
> just make up things to glean from the wealth of information you already
> have access to. Watch...
>
> Next, the Apache members subjectively say which projects they think are
> "good" (healthy). This can even be a global vote including everyone in the
> world and (should be) dynamic over time as projects evolve with time.
> Either way, lets say, the ranking says Apache Hadoop, Apache Solr, Apache
> Commons, etc. are the (collective subjective's) "best" Apache projects.
> Now, there should exist a multi-dimensional projection of the
> aforementioned gleaned statistics what will have Hadoop, Solr, Commons,
> etc. close to one another in metric-space (clustered). Likewise, low
> ranking projects should be close to one another in this space and far from
> Hadoop, Solr, Commons, etc. Find that projection and that is your "healthy
> metric space."
>
> From here, all Apache projects have a computed "healthy" score(s) and when
> users go to download, lets say, Lucene, they go: "Cool. This is a healthy
> project." (it has a HEALTH.txt file distributed with it, lets say). What
> that means is that Lucene, at that release was in the "healthy" cluster of
> the metric space. This model has various benefits:
>
>         1. There is no need to have philosophical arguments (not grounded
> in measurables) about what rules a project should follow (bounded by law).
>                 - Perhaps a project that is exclusive, but is X is still
> in the "healthy" subspace.
>                 - Perhaps having bad documentation is a "unhealthy" even
> though Apache doesn't care about documentation.
>                 - Perhaps too much discussion causes a project to become
> "unhealthy."
>                 - Perhaps … who knows? … let the statistics do the talking.
>                 -  Apache becomes a breeding ground for different models
> of open source (bounded by law), not just "The Apache Way."
>                         - And these models are measurable! Let us study
> the act of open source.
>         2. "Top-level" projects can fall from grace.
>                 - Currently, all "top-level" projects are "equal." This
> should by dynamic as the mighty do fall.
>                 - It is possible for what are now "podlings" to be
> "healthy" as they simply are coming into Apache.
>                         - "The student is the master."
>                 - Hadoop 1.2.1 might be the healthiest version of Hadoop
> (as I tend to believe). "Hadoop" is not a thing eternal.
>         3. Less work for people.
>                 - No more VOTEing on graduation.
>                 - No more amorphous aesthetic arguments about "The Apache
> Way."
>                 - No more long winded contradictory documentation about
> how things should be done (bounded by law).
>
> The Apache Way should be about metrics, not about philosophy as different
> paths lead to the same mountain top <--- See! Is that random Buddhist
> saying that everyone just "believes" even true? :) Get the human out of the
> loop!
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com
>
> P.S. The same should hold true for educational degrees. I graduate and now
> forever I'm an expert in computers? Medical doctors too! A 90 year old
> doctor can do surgery on me?!?!… Binary graduation is not "real." Metrics,
> metrics, metrics --- we live in a world where this is possible. For every
> "thing" good comes and goes, up and down…




-- 
Best regards,

   - Andy

Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein
(via Tom White)

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