Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 439C518C7D for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:56:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 86769 invoked by uid 500); 15 Oct 2015 18:56:33 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 86526 invoked by uid 500); 15 Oct 2015 18:56:33 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 86514 invoked by uid 99); 15 Oct 2015 18:56:32 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO spamd3-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:56:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd3-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd3-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 672E8180988 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:56:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd3-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.899 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.899 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd3-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-us-east.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd3-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.10]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3XEEF5GTx-Tv for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:56:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-f173.google.com (mail-io0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) by mx1-us-east.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-us-east.apache.org) with ESMTPS id D1561429AA for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:56:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ioii196 with SMTP id i196so99782096ioi.3 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:56:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=88xMQOVBib+iGNdTs6fr23x9iJMvT3rKCJrIPejU7R0=; b=qJ5OlBKVwLQQmsyONWzIHhqcg004Fi+eUynpRn3/b4ILvOHLg8U/eKg4fkPP8/p5WF tDM3mp6VYAiQxVWdlpRuVRNt84KZbOrns2xod9g0SgFXGan3NUULHFlgxX6gKItyvQ+U vIaSzGvc3yuyy5+Hj+Cwnca7FTAN4vnVvA/SmQOnfsTr+8w2qY8dO1I3hpl0MPRALfAM YRVA0yN9jyGf66ZHfMEW0Eg4SA8Y/auyqNsQ3f9toaKpqQkYkBFNJ9J8LQOwOLhrS2ko 7qApX14tqbqVk1g3iAUdXFMF70EfcEMAikkA1NT+RoxTfoFfl9Vcte++9phJqKDD/myx AQQw== X-Received: by 10.107.154.213 with SMTP id c204mr12553676ioe.80.1444935386319; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:56:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.1.241 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:55:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Dunning Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:55:56 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Starting from the other end To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140fdea6ce0c30522293c85 --001a1140fdea6ce0c30522293c85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 We have just had a few interminable threads regarding what is wrong with incubator and jumping directly to implementation attempts for changes. That isn't the way I would code something complex so it seems to me that by analogy we might want to start from the other end and start with what we all agree on. Building on that agreement and common ground, I think it will be much, much easier to determine where we have weaknesses, bottlenecks or limitations and also to suggest improvements. To do this, I am going to start a google doc to describe WHAT the incubator is supposed to do (easier to edit than a wiki) and once that document stabilizes a bit will move it to the wiki. That document should be able to let us move to similar efforts to describe HOW the incubator currently works. I would hope that one side effect of this second stage would be to pull together current documentation on the current incubator. At that point, we can point out specific improvements and start the real work of making things better. So here we go. The first step (What Apache Incubator Does) can be edited at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dxUVHGWcj83wIVnskYL7iM7PiiScLLNS4HjGHa6LsgA/edit?usp=sharing --001a1140fdea6ce0c30522293c85--