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From "John D. Ament" <john.d.am...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] [REVISED] Mentor neutrality policy
Date Sun, 11 Oct 2015 23:14:35 GMT
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 5:39 PM Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:

> First off: Can we *please* focus on the revised proposal and not get
> into a loop about the original email? I'll change the topic if that helps.
>
> The revised edition, as partly suggested by Sam (and echoed by Bertrand)
> was:
>
> - Binding votes on incubation, graduation and/or retirement are only
> valid when given by members of the IPMC who are independent from the
> podling in question. Mentors are free to recommend such actions, but
> cannot cast a vote themselves.
>
> I don't believe I mentioned MIA mentors anywhere - is that something you
> wish to discuss as well?
>

Restricting the vote in such a way is non-substantial.  Podlings rarely
graduate with minimal turn out.  Even when mentors do vote, they are not
the majority vote.  Take a look at the most recent votes to see for
yourself.

My feeling is that this action is a result of one or more members feeling
that one or more recently graduated podlings aren't quite ready yet.  I can
accept that, but I doubt that it's caused by internal company drivers.

This sort of input can easily be posted on private@i.a.o,


>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> On 10/11/2015 11:34 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> > I’m -1 on on this.  The whole premise of the ASF is that it is a
> meritocracy and that volunteers at various “levels” of the organization
> have attained their status because they are trustworthy.  Without this
> premise, the ASF falls apart.
> >
> > Finally, it’s not clear to me that this addresses the problem of MIA
> mentors.  If they were supposedly tied in some manner to the incubation and
> graduation of a podling,  then they are definitely active during its
> incubation; I have no problem with that because in my book, they are
> trustworthy.
> >
> > I’ve made proposals to solve the problems listed below, the causes of
> which are, imo, volunteerism and a free ride into a project and its PMC.
> My proposal was after 3 missed votes, the mentor is automatically removed
> with simple no-fuss reinstatement procedures should the mentor wish to
> redeem themselves.  Mentors cannot stay with the podling when it graduates.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alan
> >
> >> On Oct 9, 2015, at 8:07 AM, Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Incubator folks,
> >>
> >> I would like to propose we adopt a mentor neutrality policy for
> >> incubating podlings:
> >>
> >> - A mentor must not be financially tied to the project or its incubation
> >> status.
> >> - A mentor must not have a vested interest in incubating, graduating or
> >> dismantling a podling that goes beyond the general Apache mission
> >> - A mentor must not be affiliated with the entity granting the code
> >> (company or original project community)
> >>
> >> Furthermore, I would like to see this extended to votes on graduating or
> >> retiring podlings, so that only people with no organizational (aparty
> >> from the ASF) or financial ties to the project (or the companies behind
> >> it) can cast a binding vote on graduation or retirement.
> >>
> >> This would essentially mean:
> >>
> >> - If you work for a company (or are hired as consultant/advisor) that is
> >> entering a project into incubation, you cannot mentor it nor vote
> >> for/against its incubation, graduation or retirement.
> >> - If you are a in the original community behind the project, you cannot
> >> mentor it nor vote for/against it.
> >>
> >> I believe this would create a neutral mentorship whose sole mission is
> >> to guide podlings with the interests of the ASF in mind.
> >>
> >>
> >> Please do discuss this. If there is (mostly) positive feedback, I would
> >> like to, at some point, have a vote on including this in the Incubator
> >> policy. I realize this would cut down on the number of potential
> >> mentors, and I would ask that more people step up to the challenge of
> >> mentoring if adopted.
> >>
> >> With regards,
> >> Daniel
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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