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From Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Mentor neutrality policy
Date Fri, 09 Oct 2015 21:26:04 GMT
Meaning: proactively trying to doing the right thing, trying to define
boundaries before wrongdoing happens, is wrong?

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*OFBiz Extensions Marketplace*
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:51 PM, Chris Douglas <cdouglas@apache.org> wrote:

> Daniel-
>
> If you have these concerns about mentors, a TLP proposal, or even an
> active TLP substantiated only by private information: notify the board
> via board-private@. That's why it's there.
>
> The proposal accuses mentors of selling influence, and acting contrary
> to the foundation's interest. That is by definition a problem to which
> we react, with proof of guilt. "Proactively" treating volunteers as
> suspect demands that mentors prove their innocence. Assuming guilt is
> not "proactive," but uncivil and immoral.
>
> There are also practical objections. Every IPMC member has a binding
> vote on decisions made by the incubator, period. IPMC members may
> voluntarily recuse themselves, but a policy that suppresses the votes
> of "suspicious" groups is invalid.
>
> The TLP resolution is only recommended by the IPMC. Anything achieved
> by this proposal is better implemented by the board considering that
> recommendation in context- including evidence provided privately- and
> rejecting improper proposals with actionable feedback to the PPMC. -C
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Does there always have to be an actual problem before we can propose a
> > policy? must we always be reactive instead of proactive?
> >
> > Yes, I am in a way implying that some mentors are, perhaps, not neutral
> > in their work. I will not back it up with specific names or contexts, as
> > I don't want to take a trip to lawsuit town for things I cannot back up
> > with publicly available information.
> >
> > I don't find this to be uncivil accusations - can you outline a specific
> > segment that you find uncivil? I am proposing a set of basic rules -
> > which is naturally up for discussion and improvement - that would
> > potentially alleviate us from having some nasty discussions - whether
> > they be public or private - about the neutrality and honesty of
> > recommendations, and hopefully ensure we have a more leveled playing
> > field in the incubator.
> >
> > I'll stop here, as my eyesight is playing a trick on me today and not
> > allowing me to see what I type.
> >
> > With regards,
> > Daniel.
> >
> > On 10/09/2015 08:03 PM, Chris Douglas wrote:
> >> What problem does this solve?
> >>
> >> This proposal lacks context. It implies that mentors are not neutral,
> >> and that they are motivated by interests not shared by the ASF. But it
> >> does not outline the merits of that belief, neither does it specify
> >> how this proposal would address them. Instead of allowing those
> >> definitions to float, this discussion would be more productive if it
> >> were about some concrete problems for which there is evidence. Yet
> >> another thread of rude responses to uncivil accusations is
> >> unproductive, even if it is an IPMC tradition. -C
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:07 AM, Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>> Hi Incubator folks,
> >>>
> >>> I would like to propose we adopt a mentor neutrality policy for
> >>> incubating podlings:
> >>>
> >>> - A mentor must not be financially tied to the project or its
> incubation
> >>> status.
> >>> - A mentor must not have a vested interest in incubating, graduating or
> >>> dismantling a podling that goes beyond the general Apache mission
> >>> - A mentor must not be affiliated with the entity granting the code
> >>> (company or original project community)
> >>>
> >>> Furthermore, I would like to see this extended to votes on graduating
> or
> >>> retiring podlings, so that only people with no organizational (aparty
> >>> from the ASF) or financial ties to the project (or the companies behind
> >>> it) can cast a binding vote on graduation or retirement.
> >>>
> >>> This would essentially mean:
> >>>
> >>> - If you work for a company (or are hired as consultant/advisor) that
> is
> >>> entering a project into incubation, you cannot mentor it nor vote
> >>> for/against its incubation, graduation or retirement.
> >>> - If you are a in the original community behind the project, you cannot
> >>> mentor it nor vote for/against it.
> >>>
> >>> I believe this would create a neutral mentorship whose sole mission is
> >>> to guide podlings with the interests of the ASF in mind.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Please do discuss this. If there is (mostly) positive feedback, I would
> >>> like to, at some point, have a vote on including this in the Incubator
> >>> policy. I realize this would cut down on the number of potential
> >>> mentors, and I would ask that more people step up to the challenge of
> >>> mentoring if adopted.
> >>>
> >>> With regards,
> >>> Daniel
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
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> >
>
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