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From Roman Shaposhnik <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Mentor neutrality policy
Date Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:40:12 GMT
On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Daniel Gruno <> wrote:
> Hi Incubator folks,
> I would like to propose we adopt a mentor neutrality policy for
> incubating podlings:
> - A mentor must not be financially tied to the project or its incubation
> status.

I'm very strongly -1 on this for two reasons. One fundamental
and one operational. Fundamentally, this goes against a core
ASF principle that we all collaborate here as individuals by
checking our corporate affiliation at the door. IOW, we are explicitly
granting our members and committers the trust required to make
sure they do the right thing while they themselves (or their employees)
can significantly benefit (financially and otherwise) from the projects.

This is what makes ASF unique and anything that goes even slightly
in the direction of reducing this level of trust will have me up in arms
(regardless of whether it is related to Incubator or not).

Operationally, this is extremely tricky to enforce. I speak here
from experience of somebody who has to be appreciative of the same
set of issues while consulting for companies and yet working for my
current employer. Even in a corporate world (where stakes are much
higher from legal perspective) this typically gets handled by trusting
the individual to do the right thing and disclose any potential conflict
of interest (financial or otherwise).

> - A mentor must not have a vested interest in incubating, graduating or
> dismantling a podling that goes beyond the general Apache mission

Why? As a mentor I have as much vested interest in making sure
my podling graduates as a teacher has in seeing that a student
is successful. Why is this a problem?

> - A mentor must not be affiliated with the entity granting the code
> (company or original project community)

Very strongly -1. See above.

> - If you work for a company (or are hired as consultant/advisor) that is
> entering a project into incubation, you cannot mentor it nor vote
> for/against its incubation, graduation or retirement.

Very strongly -1. See above.

> - If you are a in the original community behind the project, you cannot
> mentor it nor vote for/against it.

Why? What problem is it solving?

> I believe this would create a neutral mentorship whose sole mission is
> to guide podlings with the interests of the ASF in mind.

I think you're solving a wrong problem here. The biggest problem I see with
IPMC (and its relationship to the board) is a fundamental lack of  mentor's
accountability TO THE PODLING (and as a consequence a lack of general
accountability of the podlings to the board).

IOW, our biggest problem is NOT scheming, corporate shilling mentors. Our
problem is some mentors who are AWOL most of the time and then just +1
during graduation.


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