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From Daniel Gruno <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] [REVISED] Mentor neutrality policy
Date Sun, 11 Oct 2015 21:39:16 GMT
First off: Can we *please* focus on the revised proposal and not get
into a loop about the original email? I'll change the topic if that helps.

The revised edition, as partly suggested by Sam (and echoed by Bertrand)

- Binding votes on incubation, graduation and/or retirement are only
valid when given by members of the IPMC who are independent from the
podling in question. Mentors are free to recommend such actions, but
cannot cast a vote themselves.

I don't believe I mentioned MIA mentors anywhere - is that something you
wish to discuss as well?

With regards,

On 10/11/2015 11:34 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> I’m -1 on on this.  The whole premise of the ASF is that it is a meritocracy and that
volunteers at various “levels” of the organization have attained their status because
they are trustworthy.  Without this premise, the ASF falls apart.
> Finally, it’s not clear to me that this addresses the problem of MIA mentors.  If they
were supposedly tied in some manner to the incubation and graduation of a podling,  then they
are definitely active during its incubation; I have no problem with that because in my book,
they are trustworthy.
> I’ve made proposals to solve the problems listed below, the causes of which are, imo,
volunteerism and a free ride into a project and its PMC.  My proposal was after 3 missed votes,
the mentor is automatically removed with simple no-fuss reinstatement procedures should the
mentor wish to redeem themselves.  Mentors cannot stay with the podling when it graduates.
> Regards,
> Alan
>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 8:07 AM, Daniel Gruno <> wrote:
>> Hi Incubator folks,
>> I would like to propose we adopt a mentor neutrality policy for
>> incubating podlings:
>> - A mentor must not be financially tied to the project or its incubation
>> status.
>> - A mentor must not have a vested interest in incubating, graduating or
>> dismantling a podling that goes beyond the general Apache mission
>> - A mentor must not be affiliated with the entity granting the code
>> (company or original project community)
>> Furthermore, I would like to see this extended to votes on graduating or
>> retiring podlings, so that only people with no organizational (aparty
>> from the ASF) or financial ties to the project (or the companies behind
>> it) can cast a binding vote on graduation or retirement.
>> This would essentially mean:
>> - If you work for a company (or are hired as consultant/advisor) that is
>> entering a project into incubation, you cannot mentor it nor vote
>> for/against its incubation, graduation or retirement.
>> - If you are a in the original community behind the project, you cannot
>> mentor it nor vote for/against it.
>> I believe this would create a neutral mentorship whose sole mission is
>> to guide podlings with the interests of the ASF in mind.
>> Please do discuss this. If there is (mostly) positive feedback, I would
>> like to, at some point, have a vote on including this in the Incubator
>> policy. I realize this would cut down on the number of potential
>> mentors, and I would ask that more people step up to the challenge of
>> mentoring if adopted.
>> With regards,
>> Daniel
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