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From Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)
Date Mon, 03 Aug 2015 20:21:36 GMT
On 03.08.2015 21:51, Julian Hyde wrote:
> In my experience incubating Calcite, the “overhead” was mostly the infrastructure
and process, not politics. (If you think the incubator is political, you haven’t seen politics…)
The process is necessary (mostly) to ensure clean IP. The infrastructure, less so. So, if
we’re talking about how to reduce the burden on podlings, those are the areas I would focus
on.
>
> Roman’s proposed reform places more responsibility on podling PMCs and, by implication,
the mentors embedded in those PMCs.

At the end of the day, it *is* the mentors' responsibility. The IPMC
mostly gets involved after the fact.

> I am not sure how well that would work in practice given the ongoing problem of absentee
mentors. The IPMC epitomizes the “it takes a village to raise a child”, in particular
with village elders stepping in with help/advice from time to time. It would be a shame to
lose that.

There's no need to lose that. But it would be a really good idea to lose
the village spinster who makes the child afraid of the dark and monsters
under the bed ...

-- Brane


>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 12:23 PM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> " This is that proverbial "political overhead" that a lot of folks are accusing ASF
of and cite as a reason of not going into the foundation. Which is grossly unfair at the board
level, but unfortunately seems to be very true at IPMC level today."
>>
>> +1000
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: shaposhnik@gmail.com [mailto:shaposhnik@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roman Shaposhnik
>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 12:13 PM
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache
Incubator)
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>>>> I've been waiting for a bout a week for other to chime in, but it 
>>>> seems that nobody has so I'll repeat my question as of a week ago: 
>>>> what would be the effective way to change the status quo around IPMC 
>>>> an make it more board like?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we can start from making the release policy actually make 
>>>> sense along the lines that Ross has outlined. I guess I can propose a 
>>>> change to the current policies (or to Ross'
>>>> point just get it back from the wayback machine :-)).
>>>>
>>>> But seriously, who else thinks the movement towards empowering PPMCs 
>>>> and making IPMC very much like the board makes sense?
>>> I think the thread fizzled because there's not a lot of support for 
>>> the idea. At least, on my end, I'm not in favor.
>> Yup. I believe this to be an unfortunate (at least from my standpoint) but and extremely
fair observation.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned the issue of R&Rs of IPMC is in a state of a stalemate
right now. We clearly have a "everything's fine lets just add more policy" constituency vs.
"IPMC should be small and more board like" crowd.
>>
>> The good news is that we're all united on making sure that the foundation is growing
by podlings making progress and graduating to TLPs. The bad news is that because of the current
mentality I don't see the types of unfortunate threads that Ignite just went through going
away anytime soon.
>>
>> This is that proverbial "political overhead" that a lot of folks are accusing ASF
of and cite as a reason of not going into the foundation. Which is grossly unfair at the board
level, but unfortunately seems to be very true at IPMC level today.
>>
>> It is clear to me that the change has very little chance of coming from within IPMC.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
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