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From Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Date Tue, 21 Jul 2015 21:44:40 GMT
A lot has changed in the period after the posting of Roy. Back then there
seemed to have been less concern regarding independence and diversity. We
now have a code of conduct (even though some are convinced that these are
mere guidelines when it comes to a project's independence).

Diversity is not the same as having 3 independent (p)PMC members. The
diversity aspect is also intended to ensure that there is some kind of
balance, before a project goes bust. If such happens, it might be to late.

Best regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> Please re-read the quote from Roy:
>
> "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two."
>
> and later
>
> "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare."
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
> > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>
> >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >> meritocratic community."?
> >>
> >> I think not.
> >>
> >
> > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> >
> > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> >
> >    -
> >
> >    it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> >    all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
> seeing all
> >    of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
> than
> >    with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> >    -
> >
> >    it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> >    guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> >    higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> >
> >    -
> >
> >    PMC and committer diversity
> >
> >    A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
> contributor
> >    or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> >    parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> >    committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> >    with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> >    number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> >    committership.
> >
> > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
> guidelines
> > are false
> >
> >
> > I think not.
> >
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading
to
> >> >> nowhere.
> >> >>
> >> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> >> and
> >> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> >> intended
> >> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number
> grows
> >> to
> >> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >> >> regarding healthiness.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Pierre Smits
> >> >>
> >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <cos@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this
list
> >> for a
> >> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project
> (back
> >> in
> >> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those
who
> >> want
> >> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >> >>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >> >>>
> >> >>> [quote]
> >> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> >> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is
a
> >> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> >> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >> >>> [/quote]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regards,
> >> >>>   Cos
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
> organisation
> >> >>>> (Gridgrain).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >> >> independece?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Best regards,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Pierre Smits
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >> >>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >> >>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >> >>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set
to " the
> >> >>> automated
> >> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion
-
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> >>>>>> .
> >> >>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in
understanding
> >> >> the
> >> >>>>>> description
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Thanks
> >> >>>>>> Amareshwari
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan
<
> >> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community
> established
> >> >>>>>> consensus
> >> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in
favor of
> proposing
> >> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Vote thread:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> >> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>    1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>>    12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >> >>>>>>>    13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >> >>>>>>>    14. Milap Wadwa
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal
to establish a
> >> >>> consensus
> >> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate
a vote.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Thank you
> >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite
PPMC)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to
be in the best
> >> >>>>>>>     interests of the Foundation and consistent
with the
> >> >>>>>>>     Foundation's purpose to establish a Project
Management
> >> >>>>>>>     Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of
> >> >>>>>>>     open-source software, for distribution at no
charge to
> >> >>>>>>>     the public, related to the automated and managed
flow of
> >> >>>>>>>     information between systems.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Should be:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> ---------
> >> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a
> high-performance,
> >> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing
and
> >> >>> transacting
> >> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >> >>>>>  --------
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project
Management
> >> >>>>>>>     Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache
Ignite Project",
> >> >>>>>>>     be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws
of the
> >> >>>>>>>     Foundation; and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be
and hereby is
> >> >>>>>>>     responsible for the creation and maintenance
of software
> >> >>>>>>>     related to the automated and managed flow of
information
> >> >>>>>>>     between systems and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President,
Apache Ignite"
> >> >> be
> >> >>>>>>>     and hereby is created, the person holding such
office to
> >> >>>>>>>     serve at the direction of the Board of Directors
as the
> chair
> >> >>>>>>>     of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >> >>> responsibility
> >> >>>>>>>     for management of the projects within the scope
of
> >> >>>>>>>     responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project;
and be it
> >> >> further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately
below be and
> >> >>>>>>>     hereby are appointed to serve as the initial
members of the
> >> >>>>>>>     Apache Ignite Project:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>     Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >> >>>>>>>     Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office
of Vice
> >> >> President,
> >> >>>>>>>     Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with
and subject to
> the
> >> >>>>>>>     direction of the Board of Directors and the
Bylaws of the
> >> >>>>>>>     Foundation until death, resignation, retirement,
removal or
> >> >>>>>>>     disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >> >>>>>>>     and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC
be and hereby
> is
> >> >>>>>>>     tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws
intended to
> >> >>>>>>>     encourage open development and increased participation
in
> the
> >> >>>>>>>     Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be
and hereby
> >> >>>>>>>     is tasked with the migration and rationalization
of the
> >> >> Apache
> >> >>>>>>>     Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining
to the Apache
> >> >>>>>>>     Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the
Apache
> Incubator
> >> >>>>>>>     Project are hereafter discharged.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
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