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From Konstantin Boudnik <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Date Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:05:33 GMT
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:38AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2015-07-22 00:41, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:17AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >>Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?
> >>
> >>I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a
> >>policy that states that a podling must have an open and diverse
> >>meritocratic community.  The link you put in your reply says exactly
> >>that.
> >it was question to Daniel because I don't see where proposed podling fails to
> >have "an open and diverse meritocratic community"; alas I don't see where the
> >alleged "policy scraping" is happening. The only quantitative data point I
> >have seen so far is these "63%" - hence my reference.
> I wrote "scrap", not "scrape". They are two different words with
> different meanings.

Sorry, of course "scrap" - damn phone auto-incorrect ;)

> I was referring to Ted's argument that diversity was not a bar to
> graduation, which seems to contradict our policy.

I let Ted to address your comment.

> Either that published policy needs to be changed (and that should be
> done outside this podling discussion), or the graduation needs to
> adhere to that policy. But simply ignoring it is not something I am
> willing to do.

Ignoring what exactly? The "diverse" language in the Incubator guidelines
(again, not the policy) is extremely vague and is evidently a subject to all
sorts of interpretations. But let's have a further discussion about the exact
semantics of it elsewhere, if desired.

Cos

> WIth regards,
> Daniel.
> 
> >
> >If this conversation has any attempt to be actionable - let's at least try to
> >be fact-of-matter. So far it was just a vague pointing to the out-of-context
> >quotes from the Incubator's guidelines.
> >
> >Regards,
> >   Cos
> >
> >>With regards,
> >>Daniel.
> >>
> >>On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >>>Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
> >>>
> >>>For easy reference, here's the link
> >>>     https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >>>
> >>>to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
> >>>community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
> >>>your claim.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>   Cos
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >>>>On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >>>>>Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>>>So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >>>>major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >>>>meritocratic community."?
> >>>>
> >>>>I think not.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >>>>>understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com>
> >>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading
to
> >>>>>>nowhere.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko,
Roman and
> >>>>>>yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list
of intended
> >>>>>>project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number
grows to
> >>>>>>77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and
neither
> >>>>>>regarding healthiness.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>>>>Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>>>Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>>>Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>>>>http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <cos@apache.org>
> >>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on
this list for a
> >>>>>>>number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project
(back in
> >>>>>>>2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for
those who want
> >>>>>>>to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>>>>>>73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>[quote]
> >>>>>>>There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a
behavior
> >>>>>>>requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for
TLPs.
> >>>>>>>We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there
is a
> >>>>>>>diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least
figure
> >>>>>>>out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>>>>>>I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads
...
> >>>>>>>and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>>>>>>status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it
would
> >>>>>>>create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>>>>>>[/quote]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>>>   Cos
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>>>>>It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated
to 1 organisation
> >>>>>>>>(Gridgrain).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity
and
> >>>>>>independece?
> >>>>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>>>dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr .
<
> >>>>>>>amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project
is set to " the
> >>>>>>>automated
> >>>>>>>>>>and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>>>>>>http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>>>>>>Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion
-
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>>>>>>.
> >>>>>>>>>>You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong
in understanding
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>>description
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Thanks
> >>>>>>>>>>Amareshwari
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan
<
> >>>>>>>>>dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite
community established
> >>>>>>>>>>consensus
> >>>>>>>>>>>and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes
in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>>>>>>graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>>>>>>+1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>    1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>>>>    14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal
to establish a
> >>>>>>>consensus
> >>>>>>>>>>>within the incubator and if appropriate will
initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Thank you
> >>>>>>>>>>>Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache
Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems
it to be in the best
> >>>>>>>>>>>     interests of the Foundation and consistent
with the
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Foundation's purpose to establish a
Project Management
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Committee charged with the creation
and maintenance of
> >>>>>>>>>>>     open-source software, for distribution
at no charge to
> >>>>>>>>>>>     the public, related to the automated
and managed flow of
> >>>>>>>>>>>     information between systems.
> >>>>>>>>>Should be:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>---------
> >>>>>>>>>"related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric -
a high-performance,
> >>>>>>>>>integrated and distributed in-memory platform for
computing and
> >>>>>>>transacting
> >>>>>>>>>on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>>>>>>  --------
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that
a Project Management
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Committee (PMC), to be known as the
"Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>>>>>>     be and hereby is established pursuant
to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project
be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>>>>     responsible for the creation and maintenance
of software
> >>>>>>>>>>>     related to the automated and managed
flow of information
> >>>>>>>>>>>     between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President,
Apache Ignite"
> >>>>>>be
> >>>>>>>>>>>     and hereby is created, the person holding
such office to
> >>>>>>>>>>>     serve at the direction of the Board
of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>>>>>>     of the Apache Ignite Project, and to
have primary
> >>>>>>>responsibility
> >>>>>>>>>>>     for management of the projects within
the scope of
> >>>>>>>>>>>     responsibility of the Apache Ignite
Project; and be it
> >>>>>>further
> >>>>>>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately
below be and
> >>>>>>>>>>>     hereby are appointed to serve as the
initial members of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED,
that
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the
office of Vice
> >>>>>>President,
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance
with and subject to the
> >>>>>>>>>>>     direction of the Board of Directors
and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Foundation until death, resignation,
retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>>>>>>     disqualification, or until a successor
is appointed;
> >>>>>>>>>>>     and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite
PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>>>>     tasked with the creation of a set of
bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>>>>>>     encourage open development and increased
participation in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project
be and hereby
> >>>>>>>>>>>     is tasked with the migration and rationalization
of the
> >>>>>>Apache
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Incubator Ignite podling; and be it
further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that all responsibilities
pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Incubator Ignite podling encumbered
upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>>>>>>     Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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