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From Konstantin Boudnik <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Date Tue, 21 Jul 2015 21:58:36 GMT
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:44PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> A lot has changed in the period after the posting of Roy. Back then there
> seemed to have been less concern regarding independence and diversity. We
> now have a code of conduct (even though some are convinced that these are
> mere guidelines when it comes to a project's independence).

I fail to see how CoC has  to do with the numbers you just quoted, so let's
not sway the conversation that way.

That said - can you quote any empirical evidences (or any evidences at all) on
why %63 seems low? I have asked you this very question in a different message
and would appreciate if the person who started this discussion can add some
factual information to support the claim.

Thank you.
  Cos

> Diversity is not the same as having 3 independent (p)PMC members. The
> diversity aspect is also intended to ensure that there is some kind of
> balance, before a project goes bust. If such happens, it might be to late.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > Please re-read the quote from Roy:
> >
> > "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two."
> >
> > and later
> >
> > "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare."
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
> > > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > >> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> > >>
> > >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> > >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> > >> meritocratic community."?
> > >>
> > >> I think not.
> > >>
> > >
> > > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> > >
> > > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> > >
> > >    -
> > >
> > >    it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> > >    all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
> > seeing all
> > >    of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
> > than
> > >    with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> > >    -
> > >
> > >    it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> > >    guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> > >    higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> > >
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> > >
> > >    -
> > >
> > >    PMC and committer diversity
> > >
> > >    A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
> > contributor
> > >    or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> > >    parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> > >    committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> > >    with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> > >    number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> > >    committership.
> > >
> > > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
> > guidelines
> > > are false
> > >
> > >
> > > I think not.
> > >
> > >
> > > rgds
> > >
> > > jan I.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> > >> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading
to
> > >> >> nowhere.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko,
Roman
> > >> and
> > >> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list
of
> > >> intended
> > >> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number
> > grows
> > >> to
> > >> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> > >> >> regarding healthiness.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Best regards,
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Pierre Smits
> > >> >>
> > >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > >> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > >> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > >> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> > >> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <cos@apache.org>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on
this list
> > >> for a
> > >> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project
> > (back
> > >> in
> > >> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for
those who
> > >> want
> > >> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> > >> >>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> [quote]
> > >> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a
behavior
> > >> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for
TLPs.
> > >> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there
is a
> > >> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least
figure
> > >> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> > >> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads
...
> > >> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> > >> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it
would
> > >> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> > >> >>> [/quote]
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Regards,
> > >> >>>   Cos
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > >> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to
1
> > organisation
> > >> >>>> (Gridgrain).
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity
and
> > >> >> independece?
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Best regards,
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Pierre Smits
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > >> >>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > >> >>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> > >> >>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project
is set to " the
> > >> >>> automated
> > >> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> > >> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > >> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion
-
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > >> >>>>>> .
> > >> >>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong
in understanding
> > >> >> the
> > >> >>>>>> description
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Thanks
> > >> >>>>>> Amareshwari
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan
<
> > >> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > >> >>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite
community
> > established
> > >> >>>>>> consensus
> > >> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes
in favor of
> > proposing
> > >> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Vote thread:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> > >> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>    1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>    12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > >> >>>>>>>    13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > >> >>>>>>>    14. Milap Wadwa
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal
to establish a
> > >> >>> consensus
> > >> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will
initiate a vote.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Thank you
> > >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache
Ignite PPMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems
it to be in the best
> > >> >>>>>>>     interests of the Foundation and consistent
with the
> > >> >>>>>>>     Foundation's purpose to establish a Project
Management
> > >> >>>>>>>     Committee charged with the creation and
maintenance of
> > >> >>>>>>>     open-source software, for distribution
at no charge to
> > >> >>>>>>>     the public, related to the automated and
managed flow of
> > >> >>>>>>>     information between systems.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Should be:
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> ---------
> > >> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric -
a
> > high-performance,
> > >> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for
computing and
> > >> >>> transacting
> > >> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> > >> >>>>>  --------
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a
Project Management
> > >> >>>>>>>     Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache
Ignite Project",
> > >> >>>>>>>     be and hereby is established pursuant
to Bylaws of the
> > >> >>>>>>>     Foundation; and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project
be and hereby is
> > >> >>>>>>>     responsible for the creation and maintenance
of software
> > >> >>>>>>>     related to the automated and managed flow
of information
> > >> >>>>>>>     between systems and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President,
Apache Ignite"
> > >> >> be
> > >> >>>>>>>     and hereby is created, the person holding
such office to
> > >> >>>>>>>     serve at the direction of the Board of
Directors as the
> > chair
> > >> >>>>>>>     of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have
primary
> > >> >>> responsibility
> > >> >>>>>>>     for management of the projects within
the scope of
> > >> >>>>>>>     responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project;
and be it
> > >> >> further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately
below be and
> > >> >>>>>>>     hereby are appointed to serve as the initial
members of the
> > >> >>>>>>>     Apache Ignite Project:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>     Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED,
that
> > >> >>>>>>>     Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the
office of Vice
> > >> >> President,
> > >> >>>>>>>     Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance
with and subject to
> > the
> > >> >>>>>>>     direction of the Board of Directors and
the Bylaws of the
> > >> >>>>>>>     Foundation until death, resignation, retirement,
removal or
> > >> >>>>>>>     disqualification, or until a successor
is appointed;
> > >> >>>>>>>     and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite
PMC be and hereby
> > is
> > >> >>>>>>>     tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws
intended to
> > >> >>>>>>>     encourage open development and increased
participation in
> > the
> > >> >>>>>>>     Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project
be and hereby
> > >> >>>>>>>     is tasked with the migration and rationalization
of the
> > >> >> Apache
> > >> >>>>>>>     Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>     RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining
to the Apache
> > >> >>>>>>>     Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon
the Apache
> > Incubator
> > >> >>>>>>>     Project are hereafter discharged.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
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> >

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