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From Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Freemarker Incubation proposal
Date Tue, 26 May 2015 06:17:51 GMT
While that is certainly a valid option, I would think that would be a topic for determine how
to exit the incubator.  

Ralph

> On May 22, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Siegfried Goeschl <siegfried.goeschl@it20one.com>
wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> regarding “lower bar for project sexiness and buzzwordyness” - another options would
be using an existing ASF umbrella project, e.g. Apache Commons. There you find a lot “unsexy
but heavily used stuff” … ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Siegfried Goeschl
> 
>> On 22 May 2015, at 19:31, Daniel Dekany <ddekany@freemail.hu> wrote:
>> 
>> Technically (i.e., in source code), I don't think Velocity and
>> Freemarker can share much. It seems that they kind of share fate
>> though. Apparently, everyone has something more important to
>> contribute to. And that's fine, I say, because what put these template
>> engines into the spotlight 15(?) years ago was Web MVC, and legacy
>> JSP's deficiencies to server that paradigm. It was a hot topic back
>> then. But nowadays, just like in the case of Velocity (apparently),
>> finding guys who want to hack this project for free after coding all
>> day at the workplace, and instead of being with their families and all
>> that, is, well... challenging. And it seems companies don't care to
>> invest either by putting paid developers on it. (Certainly the same
>> companies wouldn't be too happy if Freemarker is suddenly EOL-ed,
>> though.) I guess there's some kind lower bar in project sexiness and
>> buzzwordyness under which life just stops when it comes to
>> contributions. Those same properties aren't needed for the project
>> being heavily used though.
>> 
>> So that's where we stand. But does it mean these projects should die?
>> I don't think so. Does it mean that these projects are not for Apache?
>> I don't know that, you tell me! Surely I don't want FM to go into
>> incubation if failure is the most probable outcome. Can the
>> requirements for getting out from incubation successfully be
>> quantified? For the kind of project like this?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Thanks,
>> Daniel Dekany
>> 
>> 
>> Friday, May 22, 2015, 2:44:03 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>> 
>>> I used to use Apache Velocity. However, it hasn’t had a release
>>> since 2010 and the overall project activity has been minimal for
>>> years. As a consequence of that, and a feature that was missing, I
>>> recently switched to using Freemarker for some templating work I
>>> needed to do. The only reason I mention Velocity is I am wondering
>>> what relationship these two projects should have, if any.  I am also
>>> concerned that if interest in development of Freemarker is
>>> decreasing is it going to suffer the same fate?  I guess what I am
>>> wondering is if there is some way these two communities and/or technologies could
combine?
>>> 
>>> FWIW, I’d be happy to mentor this project. If I had the time I know
>>> I’d want to commit, but that has been in extremely short supply of late.
>>> 
>>> Ralph
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 21, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com>
wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>>>> <bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Sergio Fernández <wikier@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>> ...If you'd need any other mentor, I'm happy to help there (I'm Incubator
PMC
>>>>>> and ASF Member)...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Currently I see three mentors and two committers at
>>>>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/FreemarkerProposal, I'm not involved
>>>>> in that podling but it looks to me that additional committers might be
>>>>> more useful than more mentors.
>>>> 
>>>> 4 Mentors is a good number, though!
>>>> 
>>>> It's true that there aren't many initial committers, but the proposal
>>>> addresses this issue at length.
>>>> 
>>>>  https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/FreemarkerProposal#Known_Risks
>>>> 
>>>>  While it continues to have a large user base, the active developer
>>>>  community has become rather small at this point, and we think that the
>>>>  "Apache Way" governance model and being part of the ASF (together with
>>>>  other projects that are already using Freemarker) would help to bring new
>>>>  life and energy to the project to better support the maintenance and
>>>>  improvements of the Freemarker codebase.
>>>> 
>>>> I think this is a reasonable plan and definitely worth a shot at incubating.
>>>> The Incubator has a mixed history with podlings that start small, but
>>>> Freemarker has an advantage over many of those because it begins with a large
>>>> user base and wide adoption.
>>>> 
>>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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