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From: Alan Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com>
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Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off
Message-Id: <F22E5DDA-A971-41EE-9FBB-8058D5C73DBF@toolazydogs.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 18:00:18 -0800
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To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>

Yes which is why I am proposing for less change than what others are proposi=
ng.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 5, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <Ross.Gardler@micr=
osoft.com> wrote:
>=20
> Careful... most mentors do a great job. The problem is when all mentors fa=
de away (which as volunteers they are entitled to do) and the IPMC doesn't n=
otice.
>=20
> Ross
>=20
> Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc.
> A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Cabrera [mailto:list@toolazydogs.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 4:50 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off
>=20
> This statement confuses the lack of active mentors with the sheer size of t=
he IPMC.  The problem is not the size of the IPMC. The problem is that mento=
rs are not doing their jobs
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>> On Jan 5, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <chris.a.mattmann@jp=
l.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>=20
>> Yep and let all from that 170+ person committee be tracked down for=20
>> responsibility. Talk about s fun activity it's simply not scalable
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Jan 5, 2015, at 1:08 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <Ross.Gardler@mi=
crosoft.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> But the board is not responsible for any actions resulting from those re=
views, the IPMC is.
>>>=20
>>> Ross
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mattmann, Chris A (3980) [mailto:chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov]
>>> Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 9:31 AM
>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off
>>>=20
>>> It=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=80=9A=C2=AC=C3=A2=E2=80=9E=C2=A2s not a pawning o=
ff to the board - the board is already responsible for reviewing the IPMC re=
port which includes *all of the same detail* that the IPMC also .. reviews.
>>>=20
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Alan D. Cabrera" <list@toolazydogs.com>
>>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
>>> <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>> Date: Monday, January 5, 2015 at 8:59 AM
>>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>> Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jan 5, 2015, at 8:22 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org> wr=
ote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Alan D. Cabrera=20
>>>>> <list@toolazydogs.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@apache.org> wrote=
:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 1. get rid of IPMC altogether and move to the pTLP model
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> This is effectively an IPMC reboot.  I don=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=80=9A=
=C2=AC=C3=A2=E2=80=9E=C2=A2t really see anything=20
>>>>>> substantially different.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> At this point, I'm convinced this is the only fruitful path=20
>>>>> forward, the rest is a shell game with responsibility. See the other t=
hread.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 3. patch the current process with starting to drop the mentors from
>>>>>>>    the project who don't sign off. This will essentially serve
>>>>>>>    as a heartbeat for mentors (now, in my opinion it'll quickly
>>>>>>>   deteriorate into mindless tick-offs -- but at least it does=20
>>>>>>> not harm).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> How is it that a mentor became an IPMC member and do such an=20
>>>>>> unethical thing such as a mindless tick-off?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We're talking about human being here. The one who never ever cut=20
>>>>> corners in his life can cast the first stone.
>>>>=20
>>>> I think that you misunderstood my rhetorical question.  It is my=20
>>>> experience/understanding that if a mentor makes an effort to review=20
>>>> reports/releases then this mentor is actually doing a good job at it.
>>>> It is my experience/understanding that the overwhelming problem is=20
>>>> that mentors simply go MIA and do nothing at all.
>>>>=20
>>>> I am in favor of #3 since it holds mentors accountable.  #1 is=20
>>>> simply a washing of our hands and pawning the problem off on the=20
>>>> board simple because some of us are unwilling to do uncomfortable thing=
s.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Alan
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>=20
>>> =03B=20
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>>>=20
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>=20
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