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From Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Incubating with Apache Commons as champion?
Date Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:04:03 GMT
Just because a lot of Apache committers are involved and could put
things right into another project (or even propose a new TLP directly)
doesn't mean it happens.

https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BeanShellProposal was voted -1 in
the incubator because it had many Apache folks already and didn't need
to learn anything. Yet the project didn't move into Apache - perhaps
because it didn't have any pressure or framework to go through the
Incubator process?

(It now lives semi-dormantly as an Apache Extras thing at
https://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/beanshell/ - I joined
recently and it is slowly awakening :) )


I think the incubator should be open also for a group of experienced
Apache folks - although their needs would be different, e.g. more of a
focus on the project goals and growing their community, and not so
much worry about IP issues, licenses and build/release procedures.


On 20 January 2015 at 15:08, Rob Vesse <rvesse@dotnetrdf.org> wrote:
> Stian
>
> If a community made predominantly of existing Apache committers (or
> containing a strong core of) already exists and this would be a small self
> contained module as part of Apache Commons then why does the Incubator
> need be involved at all?
>
> Why can this not just be submitted directly to Apache Commons via the IP
> Clearance procedure (http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html)?
>
>
> Commons already allows any ASF committer to commit so the existing
> community can continue working on the code just fine.  The only sticking
> point would be once Commons-RDF wants to release in which case you'd
> likely need to canvas the larger commons community for votes until such
> time as the Commons-RDF committers have earned sufficient merit to be
> offered PMC membership
>
> On the other hand does Commons-RDF necessarily need to come to the ASF at
> all?  If it is a small self-contained interface module that will remain
> stable what does it gain (other than brand association) by coming to the
> ASF?
>
> Rob
>
> On 20/01/2015 14:28, "Stian Soiland-Reyes" <stain@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>The discussion on dev@commons about coming-to-Apache Commons-RDF
>>(https://github.com/commons-rdf/commons-rdf/) seems to be rejecting a
>>temporary mailing list like rdf@commons as it is seen t be splitting
>>Apache Commons as a project - the ideal committer on Apache Commons is
>>caring about all its components (avoiding the Jakarta pitfalls).
>>
>>
>>We had not considered becoming a TLP as once the API (mainly a set of
>>interfaces) is settled, by then it will probably be pretty much a
>>quiet project except the odd maintenance patch - and also by being a
>>common component of several RDF projects within Apache, its best home
>>then would be under Commons (presumably with most of the original
>>committers still involved).
>>
>>
>>However the large traffic of dev@commons (~400/month) about all the
>>other components can be a problem for trying to engage the non-Apache
>>community around commons-rdf while we flesh out the API. (This has
>>currently been done solely through Github issues, pull requests, and
>>"watching" the project).
>>
>>In a way we are limited by the technology of the Apache mailing lists.
>>(I know, I know...).
>>
>>(I mentioned gitlab.com )
>>
>>
>>The suggestion is that Commons-RDF could be a incubator project, but
>>with a projected path to become part of the Apache Commons instead of
>>a TLP.  (I believe this path has not happened before)
>>
>>
>>So this would be using the old structure of having a champion of
>>Apache Commons - could this be a workable incubator project?
>>
>>In a way it would be incubating just the code until API maturity
>>rather than the community or "Apache Way" as both of those already
>>exist.
>>
>>In such an (old skool) setup, would it be the Commons PMC /
>>dev@commons who would vote over the incubating releases?
>>
>>Once "graduating" it would just become a component under Apache
>>Commons and the community would just be dev@commons where the
>>committers would already be members - the dev@rdf.incubator list would
>>simply close.
>>
>>.. and where would mentors come from? Would existing committers from
>>those other Apache projects (Jena, Marmotta, Clerezza) be enough - or
>>should it be someone from IMPC or from dev@commons?
>>
>>
>>See
>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201501.mbox/%3CCAB917
>>RLJE%2BgFEpw%3Dyp-c-HpXEnvL12JZLLpc4wphGyjGH_6%3D9Q%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>for the whole threads :)
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>From: Stian Soiland-Reyes <stain@apache.org>
>>Date: 20 January 2015 at 14:06
>>Subject: Re: [DISCUSS][RDF] Separate mailing list for Commons RDF
>>To: Commons Developers List <dev@commons.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>Agree that maybe the the Incubator with a projected path to the
>>Commons could be a workable middle ground while Commons-RDF is still
>>"incubating" code-wise (but not community or Apache Way-wise).
>>
>>No earlier project has gone through this route
>>(https://incubator.apache.org/projects/ ) - this would reuse the
>>deprecated "Champion" project to be Apache Commons instead of
>>Incubator PMC in this case.
>>
>>Such a proposal has some good features - I presume commons-rdf
>>releases would still be voted over (and thus involve) the Commons PMC
>>and dev@commons  (as they would after "graduating").
>>
>>As an API, then Commons-RDF should not be considered stable while
>>being in 0.x.x-incubating anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>>On 20 January 2015 at 13:58, Torsten Curdt <tcurdt@vafer.org> wrote:
>>>>  There are several ASF projects in the
>>>> RDF space.  They have been through the incubator.  Please do talk to
>>>>those
>>>> projects if you have concerns.
>>>
>>> I am sorry - but how are those projects relevant in this case?
>>>
>>> And what's so bad about the incubator? You could (maybe) later on come
>>> to Commons.
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
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>>>
>>
>>--
>>Stian Soiland-Reyes
>>Apache Taverna (incubating)
>>http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
>>
>>--
>>Stian Soiland-Reyes
>>Apache Taverna (incubating)
>>http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
>>
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>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Stian Soiland-Reyes
Apache Taverna (incubating)
http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718

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