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From Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: What is "The Apache Way"?
Date Fri, 09 Jan 2015 16:12:45 GMT
The temperature of this might be reduced by replacing, 'no one knows what
the Apache Way is' with 'a lot of us have trouble translate it into
practical decisions in a repeatable fashion.' Or not.

As reported here, we have performed multiple experiments in which multiple
members, directors, and others have derived conflicting _practical_
interpretations from 'the way.' People need to make practical decisions
about releases, web sites, brands, and the like. People don't enjoy being
told that they have 'trangresssed'. People particularly don't like this
when their trangression was an action recommended by someone who is
'supposed to know,' and, in fact, thinks that she or he does know.

So, either a lot of us are really stupid, or the Foundation as a whole has
a gap between the general principles and their application. No, we can't
have a rule book that details every particle of how to run an Apache
project, but apparently we could have  more concrete guidance.


On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:

> Please tell me where the examples you give diverge or conflict?
>
> > On Jan 9, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> And I think that someone who is an ASF member who claims that
> >> the Apache Way is completely unknown and nebulous and that
> >> there is no clear understanding of what the Apache Way is, well
> >> I think that's a big problem as well.
> >
> > We've seen Brane's version of The Apache Way.  Here are some others:
> >
> >    https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#philosophy
> >
> >        While there is not an official list, these six principles have
> been
> >        cited as the core beliefs of philosophy behind the foundation,
> which
> >        is normally referred to as "The Apache Way":
> >
> >        *   collaborative software development
> >        *   commercial-friendly standard license
> >        *   consistently high quality software
> >        *   respectful, honest, technical-based interaction
> >        *   faithful implementation of standards
> >        *   security as a mandatory feature
> >
> >
> http://communityovercode.com/2013/11/apache-governance-projects-first/
> >
> >        These include things like The Apache Way of: volunteer and
> >        collaborative led community built software projects; using the
> >        permissive Apache license; and having a consistent and stable
> brand,
> >        infrastructure services, and home for all Apache projects.
> >
> >    http://www.slideshare.net/rgardler/the-apache-way-and-openofficeorg
> >
> >        *   Open Development vs. Open Source
> >        *   Everyone is equal, everyone is a volunteer
> >        *   All technical decisions about a project are public
> >        *   She who has the best ideas leads
> >            *   Until a better idea emerges
> >
> >    http://theapacheway.com/
> >
> >        The Apache Way is sort of like Zen. It's something that's
> difficult to
> >        explain, has many interpretations, and the best way to learn it
> is to
> >        do it.
> >
> > The Incubator stands accused, on this list and others, of graduating
> pudlings
> > who fail to understand the Apache Way.  Like me, these podlings have an
> their
> > own interpretation of the Apache Way.  But we don't know, and can't know,
> > every possible interpretation of The Apache Way.
> >
> > If the Board thinks that not knowing The Apache Way is a problem, give
> us a
> > specific definition -- and then don't hold us accountable for knowledge
> of any
> > other version.
> >
> > Marvin Humphrey
> >
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> >
>
>
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