incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Podlings should be in charge of their mentors (was: Incubator report sign-off)
Date Tue, 06 Jan 2015 00:20:08 GMT
When I sign up for helping a project, especially as champion, this is a
very reasonable request.



On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Back in 2013, I suggested asking the Champion to accept a very clear
> level of reporting responsibility: to write a sentence or two _every
> month_ or find someone else to do it. That's one person whom I wanted
> to ask to sign up, for the duration of an incubation, to pay enough
> attention to be able to report a basic heartbeat.
>
> ?
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 5, 2015, at 08:18 PM, jan i wrote:
> >> On 5 January 2015 at 20:06, Alan D. Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Jan 5, 2015, at 10:26 AM, jan i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Monday, January 5, 2015, Alan D. Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com
> >> > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','list@toolazydogs.com');>> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Jan 5, 2015, at 9:21 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> The tracking part is easy, though. What's difficult is the
part
> >> > >>> that would require us to do something with poddlings put
> >> > >>> on hold. Unless we come up with clear exit criteria for
> >> > >>> this new state -- I don't think we're solving any real problems
> >> > >>> here.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> There’s no silver bullet here, if a podling cannot whip up a
> mentor it’s
> >> > >> because:
> >> > >> the podling is not popular and should probably be retired anyway,
> being
> >> > >> put on hold will provide impetus for the podling to seek out a
new
> venue
> >> > >> there are not enough mentors
> >> > >> There is no way to magically solve the latter.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > You mean popular within the pool of mentors (IPMC), the project can
> still
> >> > > be popular on several other scales.
> >> >
> >> > I’m not speaking of popularity of mentors; I regret that choice of
> words.
> >> > I am stating that active and healthy podlings seem to have no trouble
> >> > attracting active mentors.
> >> >
> >> > The converse seems to be true.  Unhealthy podlings seem to attract
> mentors
> >> > who have signed up out of pity and subsequently go MIA.
> >> >
> >> I agree with the last part, I still have to see mentors volunteer for
> >> small
> >> active and healthy projects which might not be main road. Of course it
> >> depends on how active and healthy is defined, but as an example my
> little
> >> project Corinthia barely managed to get 2 mentors, while in the same
> time
> >> span we got 3 committers.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Before anyone replies, I understand this is not a hard and fast rule
> but
> >> > an imperfect qualitative observation on my part.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, active and responsible mentors will eventually get to all
> podlings.
> >> >
> >> > > I might lack experience, but why do more active mentors guarantee
> that
> >> > the
> >> > > podling will be a better TLP ?
> >> >
> >> > I’m not sure who’s making that assertion.
> >> >
> >> Well its because I cannot see why a podling need more than 1 active
> >> mentor
> >> at all times....having multiple is fine, to cover each other, but it
> >> should
> >> not take more than 1 mentor to learn a podling, what it needs to
> >> understand. The suggestion implicit says 2 mentors is the minimum needed
> >> for at podling to become a successful TLP.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > We try to solve the problem of mentors not being active but adding
> more
> >> > > volume. I don't believe that is the right cure.
> >> >
> >> > We’re not adding volume.  The volume is already there.  We’re just
> making
> >> > the state of affairs more explicit and transparent and adding
> culpability
> >> > for MIA mentors.
> >> >
> >> Do we have a rule today that a podling needs at least 2 active mentors
> >> (if
> >> we have that, then we would not have a problem with sign offs, or a lot
> >> of
> >> dead podlings), at least I have not seen it....that is what I mean by
> >> adding volume.
> >>
> >> If just 1 mentor is active and sign off the reports, then I do not see
> >> the
> >> problem.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > I do agree with bernard that it is the podling that should ask for
> >> > > help....but the IPMC should solve it.,
> >> >
> >> > Yes, it should help solve problems but if there are no mentors
> available
> >> > there are no mentors available.
> >> >
> >> Then the IPMC should not have accepted the podling in the first place!
> >>
> >> It is simply not fair to make the life of a podling, depending on
> whether
> >> or not we have mentors available (REMARK after accepting the proposal) !
> >> If
> >> the podling have a healthy community and are active, we cannot and
> should
> >> not close it down, just because we have a mentor problem.
> >>
> >> To me telling a podling it cannot grow its community nor make releases,
> >> is
> >> the same as closing it down.
> >
> > Jan,
> >
> > From an idealistic perspective, you are completely right. Apache should,
> > once a project has been accepted, provide the support needed.
> >
> > The reality is that, given the ASF's volunteer nature, that simply won't
> > always work.
> >
> > I'd much rather we be clear with projects right up front, saying
> > something like:
> >
> > "To join the Incubator, you need one or more mentors. To get to
> > graduation, you will need the support of those mentors. If mentors
> > become unavailable, you will need to seek replacements. Unless you have
> > already learned the ways of the ASF and are ready to graduate, you will
> > need to keep engaged with your mentors. If possible, engage in the wider
> > ASF, and develop connections with others who might be in a position to
> > assist with mentorship should one or all of your current mentors become
> > unable to fulfill the role. "
> >
> > This is, actually, what happens, and I'd much rather we just said it
> > like that :-)
> >
> > Upayavira
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Mime
  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message