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From Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Next steps for various proposals (mentor re-boot, pTLP, etc.)
Date Thu, 22 Jan 2015 12:14:53 GMT
Niclas,

I merely speak about what I experienced.  My experience is that shepherds
provided valuable help to me while I was acting as a mentor.  This was (as
I understand it) part of the expectation for shepherds.  The board has
never provided me specific help like this in mentoring.  I don't think that
it was ever expected that they would.

If you would like to characterize shepherds as cross-cutting
mentors-at-large, I wouldn't disagree.  I don't much care about names
unless they confuse people.  I really did appreciate the help when I got it.

>From your tone, however, it sounds like you would like for me to disagree
with something you say.  I can't figure out what it is that I should
disagree with.





On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org> wrote:

> Ted,
> doesn't that then suggest that the Board should do such an active task as
> well, since they "thus can spot common problems
> easily"? But they don't, possibly due to it doesn't scale. Their man on the
> field, the VP, is trusted to have a grip on the situation. Why doesn't IPMC
> trust that the mentor(s) has a grip as its man on the field.
>
> Isn't what you describe "another mentor" with a different engagement
> level...
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > Statements like shepherds dilute mentor responsibility are false. A
> > > shepherd
> > > > provides a mechanism for the IPMC to review the Podling/Mentor
> > > relationship.
> > > > This is something the IPMC needs to do when voting to graduate a
> > > podling. We
> > > > should be ALL be doing shepherding work.
> > >
> > > I can see what Alan's getting at, though.  Unless the podling is in
> > > trouble,
> > > the podling contributors ought to be writing the report.  The people
> who
> > > are
> > > then best placed to give informed feedback on that report are the
> > podling's
> > > Mentors.  But instead, the people who provide commentary on the state
> of
> > > the
> > > podling community tend to be the shepherds, whose understanding is
> > > necessarily
> > > more superficial.  Doesn't that seem strange?
> > >
> >
> > Actually, I don't see it as strange.
> >
> > More than once while I was actively mentoring a project, a shepherd
> dropped
> > in and noticed something that neither the project nor I had been
> focussing
> > on.
> >
> > The mentor (me) was very actively involved in helping the community but
> the
> > shepherd distinctly added value.
> >
> > Shepherds see across many projects and thus can spot common problems
> > easily.  Mentors focus on a few problems and thus can spot longer-term
> > problems.  The difference works really well in my experience.  At least I
> > know that I was able to mentor better with the help.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
>

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