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From Roman Shaposhnik <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: my pTLP view
Date Sat, 24 Jan 2015 01:53:52 GMT
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:
> Those of us in such a new incoming community might get the commit bit but
> can't vote on adding committers,

See my reply to Jan. C == PPMC solves this completely.

> or making releases.

This is *exactly* what is happening today with every single poddling.
Why are you bringing this up as a *new* concern around pTLP?

> We don't have a
> binding vote on our own committership / fate / ability to manage our own
> sources.

I'll be a stickler here: literally  the only new issue that doesn't
exist today is that there won't be a by-law guaranteeing community
that they can *override* ASF members vote on new committers. That is it!
Everything else stays *exactly* the same. Not a single change
to how IPMC *rules* are structured.

> This situation is primed for mistrust, conflict, and heartache the
> second the members and the incoming community disagree about some
> substantial aspect of the project direction. The incoming community is
> disempowered and has no recourse but to go along with the outcome of Apache
> politics or abandon the project. As a responsible steward of my community,
> I would never consider bringing my project to Apache under these
> circumstances.

Wow! This is a pretty gross overstatement if you ask me. Remember,
all of the above is predicated on a *single* possibility. Not even a
guarantee a *possibility*. That ASF PMC members of pTLP will start
actively overriding  votes on adding new members to the community.
This is literally *the only* power they will be getting that doesn't
exist in IPMC today.

The chances of that are slim to none, so I have no choice but to call
the above a strawman.

> This may also increase the risk a project is coming here due to an
> excessive fascination with the Apache brand, because otherwise the bargain
> seems poor (in my view).

Like I said -- we won't know until we try. We will try with *willing*
participants. If they like it and if the board likes it -- we will start
migrating folks. If not -- we'll stop.

Thanks,
Roman.

P.S. This is my time to apologize for harsh tone. But really? Really:
"The incoming community is disempowered and has no recourse
but to go along with the outcome of Apache politics or abandon the project."

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