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From "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <Ross.Gard...@microsoft.com>
Subject RE: Incubator report sign-off
Date Tue, 06 Jan 2015 01:07:39 GMT
Careful... most mentors do a great job. The problem is when all mentors fade away (which as
volunteers they are entitled to do) and the IPMC doesn't notice.

Ross

Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc.
A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Cabrera [mailto:list@toolazydogs.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 4:50 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off

This statement confuses the lack of active mentors with the sheer size of the IPMC.  The problem
is not the size of the IPMC. The problem is that mentors are not doing their jobs

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 5, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
wrote:
> 
> Yep and let all from that 170+ person committee be tracked down for 
> responsibility. Talk about s fun activity it's simply not scalable
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 5, 2015, at 1:08 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
wrote:
>> 
>> But the board is not responsible for any actions resulting from those reviews, the
IPMC is.
>> 
>> Ross
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mattmann, Chris A (3980) [mailto:chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov]
>> Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 9:31 AM
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off
>> 
>> It’s not a pawning off to the board - the board is already responsible for
reviewing the IPMC report which includes *all of the same detail* that the IPMC also .. reviews.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Alan D. Cabrera" <list@toolazydogs.com>
>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
>> <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Date: Monday, January 5, 2015 at 8:59 AM
>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off
>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 5, 2015, at 8:22 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Alan D. Cabrera 
>>>> <list@toolazydogs.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1. get rid of IPMC altogether and move to the pTLP model
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is effectively an IPMC reboot.  I don’t really see anything

>>>>> substantially different.
>>>> 
>>>> At this point, I'm convinced this is the only fruitful path 
>>>> forward, the rest is a shell game with responsibility. See the other thread.
>>>> 
>>>>>> 3. patch the current process with starting to drop the mentors from
>>>>>>     the project who don't sign off. This will essentially serve
>>>>>>     as a heartbeat for mentors (now, in my opinion it'll quickly
>>>>>>    deteriorate into mindless tick-offs -- but at least it does 
>>>>>> not harm).
>>>>> 
>>>>> How is it that a mentor became an IPMC member and do such an 
>>>>> unethical thing such as a mindless tick-off?
>>>> 
>>>> We're talking about human being here. The one who never ever cut 
>>>> corners in his life can cast the first stone.
>>> 
>>> I think that you misunderstood my rhetorical question.  It is my 
>>> experience/understanding that if a mentor makes an effort to review 
>>> reports/releases then this mentor is actually doing a good job at it.
>>> It is my experience/understanding that the overwhelming problem is 
>>> that mentors simply go MIA and do nothing at all.
>>> 
>>> I am in favor of #3 since it holds mentors accountable.  #1 is 
>>> simply a washing of our hands and pawning the problem off on the 
>>> board simple because some of us are unwilling to do uncomfortable things.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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