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From Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>
Subject Re: my pTLP view
Date Sun, 25 Jan 2015 19:11:20 GMT
On 25.01.2015 19:51, Andrew Purtell wrote:
>> That hardly ever happens (it's most likely when there are problems with
> ​> ​
> a podling's first few releases), which is why you get the impression
> ​> ​
> that the PPMC can make binding decisions.
>
> ​Close. The PPMC membership feels they have made a decision that matters
> with equal input.
> Certainly on PPMCs I've been on,
> ​there is awareness that everything is
> provisional
> ​. Still, a
>  process takes place on PPMC mailing lists leading to a tallied outcome.
> The input that leads to this output is the consensus or voting of *a group
> of equal peers*.
> ​ This output is handed to the IPMC in aggregate. ​
> When casting votes on the PPMC lists there are no +1 (binding) or +1
> (non-binding) distinctions made. PPMC sends the outcome over to the IPMC
> feeling some level of ownership having just participated in a decision
> making process as equal
> ​s​
> . (Or at least so I think, in some perhaps quaint notion.) Of course in
> IPMC voting it is different, but the IPMC is where supervision happens, or
> doesn't, as some argue.

This is *exactly* the way things work in a TLP. Any committer can
propose a release. The PMC must (!) start a (public) vote. Anyone can
vote, with PMC votes being binding. /Any/ -1 vote, either from PMC
member or plain committer, should block the release and trigger a
discussion to find a solution; and in this discussion (which purpose is
to reach consensus on a solution), PMC members have no more voice than
any other community member.

If the PMC decides to ignore a -1 on a release vote, they'd better have
really good reasons for that, or I'd expect the Board to come down like
a ton of bricks on that PMC.

The situation is slightly different with new committer/PMC member
nominations and votes, which are private; you have a point there.

-- Brane

> On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Branko Čibej <brane@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 25.01.2015 19:16, Andrew Purtell wrote:
>>> With a PPMC we invite newcomers to make votes we call binding on matters
>> of
>>> their own project.
>> As other people have said, PPMC members (that are not also IPMC members)
>> do not have binding votes, neither for releases nor for inviting new
>> committers/PPMC members. The "binding" bit lies with the IPMC, which can
>> revoke any formal decision made by the PPMC.
>>
>> That hardly ever happens (it's most likely when there are problems with
>> a podling's first few releases), which is why you get the impression
>> that the PPMC can make binding decisions. In this respect, there's no
>> practical difference between the current IPMC model and the proposed
>> pTLP model.
>>
>> Of course, when it comes to /technical/ decisions, there's no such thing
>> as a vote, so the term "binding" does not apply. Consensus, of one form
>> or another, always rules: and the IPMC or mentors can't meddle in this
>> case.
>>
>> -- Brane
>>
>>
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>


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