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From Upayavira ...@odoko.co.uk>
Subject Re: proposal: mentor re-boot
Date Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:35:34 GMT


On Wed, Jan 7, 2015, at 06:46 PM, jan i wrote:
> On 7 January 2015 at 19:32, Alan D. Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > > On Jan 7, 2015, at 10:13 AM, Branko Čibej <brane@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 07.01.2015 18:42, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> > >> I’ve written up a more comprehensive proposal that would not only hold
> > mentors accountable but also give them a fair bit of autonomous authority
> > during releases.
> > >>
> > >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/MentorRebootProposal <
> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/MentorRebootProposal>
> > >>
> > >> What we would gain is transparency and simplicity.  There would be no
> > false expectations.  Podlings would know where they stand.  Work would be
> > equitably distributed.
> > >>
> > >> No more layers.  No more additional roles and confusing/diluted
> > responsibilities.  No more shuffling.
> > >
> > > What you're proposing, then, is that we institute mentor licenses with
> > > requirements over and above those for ASF membership. In effect, you'd
> > > create an additional level of earned merit for mentors ... which is
> > > probably a good thing.
> >
> > I don’t think that I’m following.  Mentors need to be members of the IPMC
> > but that doesn’t mean they need to be ASF members.
> >
> > > What I don't understand is this: where's the motivation for anyone to
> > > submit to this additional burden? There's a lot of stick in your
> > > proposal, but a woeful lack of carrot ... so, most likely not going to
> > > work for a bunch of volunteers.
> >
> > What extra burden?  The proposal is not asking mentors to do anything more
> > than what they shouldn’t already be doing.  All the proposal does is hold
> > the mentors accountable for their inactivity and to add more of an
> > incentive for PPMCs to be proactive in their relationships w/ mentors;
> > something that the PPMCs shouldn’t already be doing.
> >
> > The carrot for both podlings and mentors is that there is no second
> > gauntlet of voting/review by the IPMC for releases.
> >
> 
> In general I like the proposal especially the carrot. But I do have a
> couple of concerns:
> 
> "An active mentor is removed from a podling if that mentor does not
> review/sign off on a release. An active mentor is removed from a podling
> if
> that mentor does not review/sign off on a board report."
> 
> Can a mentor not take vacation ? I think this need to contain a clause,
> that if the mentor has adviced the PPMC about the absence this will not
> happen.
> 
> "Being put on hold means that no committers can be added, no PPMC members
> can be added, and no releases can be performed"
> This would be a no go for me. If a podling has lost a mentor, but are
> actively seeking a new mentor, the IPMC must step in to accept a new
> committer, PPMC member or release. The IPMC has accepted the podling, so
> it
> is very unfair, to punish a podling, that does a active job to replace a
> mentor.

The IPMC *cannot* replace a mentor. We have no power to make someone
take on that role. Alan, please add a section to your doc about the fact
that podlings retain responsibility for engaging with their mentors, and
for recruiting replacements should a mentor quit or go AWOL.

It is great to clarify the responsibilities of mentors, but please let's
set the expectations and responsibilities of podling members, otherwise
we keep this idea that the Incubator PMC is a body that has power to do
things (like make someone step up as a mentor for a project), which it
doesn't.

Upayavira

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