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From Joe Witt <joe.w...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: P. An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
Date Mon, 22 Dec 2014 14:16:27 GMT
Hello

I am a very new participant in Apache and a member of the ppmc for apache
nifi (incubating).

So I thought it would be good to share that perspective for this
discussion...

In writing the NiFi proposal this section was honestly a bit awkward.  The
other sections are largely about providing information so the community
could better understand the project and they were intuitive in purpose.
But this 'fascination with the brand section' seemed more like a comment to
the new project.  It was clear there was past history that prompted the
need for such a section but there was little to draw on to truly appreciate
the intent and thus to write anything that felt truly genuine.

Perhaps this section would be better off written as a question: "Does the
proposed podling intend to learn and follow the Apache Way and to
participate through appropriate discourse?"  It is also reasonable to
include with the question examples or patterns of behavior which are
problematic as well as examples or patterns which best reflect the ideals.

Thanks
Joe

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Sean Owen <srowen@apache.org> wrote:

> I was going to ask the same. I've seen ~5 proposals now, and was
> surprised to see how they all copied and pasted the same boilerplate
> to answer several points, including this stanza about risk of
> excessive fascination with the brand.
>
> I also suspect that there is excessive fascination, and that paying
> lip service to it as a risk is not really sufficient. That may be
> another discussion.
>
> But concretely: what about just asking proposers to not copy and paste
> past proposals? Surely it's not so much to ask the proposed project to
> address, individually and from scratch, the issues raised by the
> proposal process. Or, explicitly ask the proposal to address why the
> project should be part of the ASF, now -- that is, what *else* besides
> becoming "Apache Foo" is the motivation?
>
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
> > I was wondering... What we *REALLY* want are projects
> > that are interested more in The Apache Way than in the
> > Apache Brand. We need to make it more clear, somehow,
> > that new projects want to enter the ASF because they
> > approve of, and want to follow, the *how* of creating
> > projects and communities. Lately, it appears, that we
> > have graduated projects which are more interested in
> > simply being able to add 'Apache' to their name, and
> > then deride/minimize/ignore/dispute most/all of the
> > aspects of The Apache Way which is what made the Apache
> > brand so valuable and noteworthy.
> >
> > Maybe we need to change the proposal guide.
> >
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