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From jan i <j...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] [DISCUSSION] Corinthia for Incubation.
Date Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:13:07 GMT
Hi all.

We, at the project, hope that the lack of discussion is not a negative sign
!

In the meantime, we have been working behind the scenes, and a couple of
things have happened:

- The proposal is now on the incubator wiki / corinthiaProposal
<https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CorinthiaProposal>

- Dennis Hamilton (incubator, aoo committer) joined the initial committer
list. His expertise in especially document formats will be of great value
to the project, Dennis is also providing a lot of good feedback on our open
issues.

- Daniel Gruno (Humbedooh) has volunteered to be mentor for the project. We
look forward to guidance in all the tricky "paper work".

- Talks are being prepared for ACNA.


We are more than happy to answer any questions and make requested changes.

on behalf of the project
jan i


On 24 November 2014 at 22:14, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:

> There are some passing similarities with Forrest here. I'm not suggesting
> any changes to the proposal, just flagging that the intermediate format
> approach described here is the approach Forrest takes. The focus for
> Forrest was not on document format conversion but there is a lot of
> experience there in using intermediate formats.
>
> Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc.
> A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 12:37 PM
> To: jan i
> Cc: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] [DISCUSSION] Corinthia for Incubation.
>
> Hi.
>
> Sorry, somebody hit me with the big GIT hammer !! I did something with git
> that should not be done.
>
> The correct text is:
> ================= COPY ==============
> ## Proposal
> The goal of Corinthia is to provide a responsive design editor as well as
> a toolkit that enacts a defined conversion between different office
> document formats. Responsive design fits the layout as needed, tablet or
> desktop.
> The editor is a lightweight editor - an extension and not a replacement
> for the desktop editor.
>
> Many office document programs claim to read/write to the ISO open
> standards for office documents, OpenDocument Format (ODF) and Open Office
> XML (OOXML), but do not document which parts are left unimplemented.
> Furthermore, the standards have a large number of "implementation defined"
> parts, making real-world congruence chancy. The Corinthia toolkit wants to
> put this unacknowledged aspect into the open and provide "compliance
> sheets" for document formats, as known from industry computer protocols.
>
> Corinthia aims at generating a large set of test documents, which can be
> used to verify the "compliance sheets". The code can work as test case for
> other applications (or entities tendering for OOXML/ODF based systems) as
> well.
>
> The base of Corinthia and its toolkit is the library DocFormats, which
> converts between different office document file formats. Currently it
> supports .docx (part of the OOXML specification), HTML, and LaTeX
> (export-only).
>
> The design  of DocFormats is based on on the idea of bidirectional
> transformation (BDT), in which a specific document (the original file in
> its source format) is converted into an abstract document (in the
> destination format). A modified version of the abstract document can then
> be used to update the specific document in a non-destructive manner,
> keeping intact all parts of the file which are not supported in the
> abstract format by modifying the original file rather than replacing it.
>
> Descriptions of BDT can be found in:
>
> Aaron Bohannon, J. Nathan Foster, Benjamin C. Pierce et. al. Boomerang:
> Resourceful Lenses for String Data. Technical Report MS-CIS-07-15
> Department of Computer and Information Science University of Pennsylvania.
> November 2007. [boomerang.pdf](
> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/papers/boomerang.pdf)
>
> Benjamin Pierce. Foundations for Bidirectional Programming. ICMT2009 -
> International Conference on Model Transformation. June 2009.
> [icmt-2009-slides.pdf](
> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/papers/icmt-2009-slides.pdf)
>
> The short term goal of the project is to have an easy-to-integrate library
> that any application can use to embed support for a range of different file
> formats, and use the parsing, serialisation, and conversion facilities for
> various purposes. These include editors, batch conversion tools, web
> publishing systems, document analysis tools, and content management
> systems. By abstracting over different file formats and using HTML as a
> common intermediate format, one can just code an application to that end,
> and let DocFormats take care of conversion to other formats.
>
> The medium term goal of the project is to have a series of end-user
> applications (separate from the library itself), including an editor and
> file conversion tool. These will serve as examples of how the libraries can
> be used.
>
> And ultimately to have a touch based UI for office documents.
>
> It is also a goal to cooperate with other open source projects, in terms
> of getting input from them as well as providing APIs for their use.
> Corinthia is meant to be easy to understand and work with, making it more
> approachable for a range of projects.
>
> ## Background
> DocFormats has been shipping as part of UX Write on the iOS app store
> since February 2013. From this perspective, it is a stable, mature library
> that works for the most commonly-used features of .docx formats. As an open
> source project, it is completely new, and from this perspective is very
> much in its early stages. We are currently exploring the best way to
> leverage the existing work that has been done to make it easier to
> integrate in other projects, as well as support more file formats.
>
> ## Rationale
> Apache's mission to produce software for the public good, fits with
> Corinthia's idea of providing an editor and thoroughly documented
> conversion of office documents, thereby hopefully show that implementations
> can and should be documented especially where the standards offer options,
> which will help to ensure interoperability.
>
> We strongly believe the project has potential to grow by cooperating with
> other projects and offers something mature projects cannot offer, a chance
> to take advantage of new architectures and design philosophies, as well as
> also to learn from, and not just reproduce, history.
>
> We have found that Apache committers are loyal to Apache, and more likely
> to take part in Corinthia.incubator than Corinthia.GitHub.
>
>
> ## Initial Goals
> The initial and most important goal is to enlarge the community consisting
> of developers, testers, and people who know the standards in depth.
>
> Technically there are four goals:
> - Cleanup core, to make it easy to add filters (format converters)
> - Complete the ODF filter
> - Add spreadsheeet/drawing formats to the ODF and OOXML filters
> - Produce an editor based on JavaScript & HTML which can be embedded in
> mobile apps or used in a Web browser
>
> Our initial goals might not be big visions, but we prefer something
> reachable, and then make bigger goals as we grow.
>
> ## Current Status
> ### Meritocracy
> Some of the initial committers are already part of Apache, and those who
> are not are getting used to working "the Apache way".
>
> ### Community
> Our community could be larger, and committers from AOO and others have
> shown interest in the project, but we have preferred to stay a stable, but
> very active group until we are part of Incubator.
>
> Apache/Incubator provides a lot of tools (e.g., mailing lists) and
> community practices—The Apache Way--that enable community engagement and
> growth.
>
> ### Core Developers
> Peter Kelly, peter@uxproductivity.com<br> Jan Iversen, ASF member++<br>
> Svante Schubert, ASF committer
>
> Remark: Louis and Dorte do not develop, but help with non-coding tasks.
>
> ### Alignment
> Corinthia has commonalities with AOO, but is not competing. AOO is a
> desktop product and integrated suite and Corinthia is a lightweight editor
> and a developer product (library).
>
> Corinthia has a document API like POI, but the focus is different.
> Corinthia targets a conversion library and an editor. POI is a handling
> API.
>
> Sharing test documents with projects like AOO and POI seems to make a lot
> of sense.
>
> ## Known Risks
> The biggest risk Corinthia faces is failing to attract a larger community
> (not only developers but also testers and documenters). A number of actions
> has already been taken to minimize the risk:
> - Contact to student projects (in particular Capstone)
> - Talks at ApacheConEU
>
> The project uses existing technologies, so there are no real technological
> risks.
>
> There is of course a risk that nobody wants to use the project, but the
> fun building the community and project make this risk bearable.
>
> ### Orphaned products
> None
>
> ### Inexperience with Open Source
> All initial committers have worked several years with open source.
>
> ### Homogenous Developers
> The initial committers are geographically distributed across the world.
> Half of the initial developers are experienced Apache committers and all
> have experience in working in distributed development communities.
>
> The original source has already been partly refactored by other developers
> to make sure knowledge is spread among multiple people.
>
> ### Reliance on Salaried Developers
> No committers are being paid to participate.
>
> However, it should be mentioned the Peter Kelly and Louis Suarez-Potts
> have a company that has added a commercial editor for iPhone on top of the
> library. The issue has been discussed.
>
> ### Relationships with Other Apache Products Corinthia has/will have a
> relation to at least the following projects:
> - **AOO**, core developers have been told on dev@ that for targeting
> mobile platforms, a rewrite of AOO would be better than building on top of
> the existing sources. It is our hope to have long and beneficial
> interaction with AOO.
> - **Httpd**, we would like to make a module that on the fly presents
> odf/ooxml documents as pure html.
> - **POI**, Corinthia library is similar to POI, but simpler, more generic,
> and written in C. We hope to be able to share know-how as well as test
> cases.
>
> Corinthia is based on document standards which are used by numerous
> high-profile projects. We would like to cooperate with the projects to
> exchange knowledge.
>
> ## Documentation
> The current documentation can be found at [github](
> https://github.com/uxproductivity/Corinthia/wiki)<br>
> The project is aware that this is work in progress and there is special
> attention on this task.
>
> ## Initial Source
> The initial source was closed-source developed solely by Peter Kelly. The
> source has moved to GitHub as Open Source and all files changed to ASLv2 to
> signal the grant.
>
> Remark, the source was part of the UX Write product. The editor of UX
> Write is currently not part of the grant.
>
> ## Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan Source code will be
> moved from the GitHub uxproductivity organisation space to the Apache space
> as defined by incubator.<br> Peter Kelly will grant the repo to ASF.
>
> ## External Dependencies
> The current source includes 2 third party libraries (see
> [DocFormats/3rdparty](
>
> https://github.com/uxproductivity/DocFormats/tree/master/DocFormats/3rdparty
> ))
> to which minor modifications have been made.
> - **minizip**, a layer on top of zlib
> - **w3c-tidy-html5**, a html5 manipulation lib.
>
> Remark, currently the changes made to the original sources are
> undocumented. The plan is to have the 1-1 sources in the repo (or have
> users download it), and then apply a patch.
>
> Furthermore, Corinthia depends on
> - libxml2
> - zlib
> - SDL
>
> ## Cryptography
> Corinthia does not use cryptography nor are there plans to use it.<br> In
> the medium term we would like to use digital signing of the convenience
> binaries.
>
> ## Required Resources
> ### Mailing lists
> We would like to have:
>
>   dev@corinthia.incubator.apache.org for general discussions<br>
>   private@corinthia.incubator.apache.org for private discussions
>
> ### Subversion Directory
> We prefer not to use SVN.
>
> ### Git Repository
> Our current git repository is [github](
> https://github.com/uxproductivity/Corinthia).
>
> We would like the repo to be moved to the github apache organisation under
> the name "corinthia" or "corinthia.incubator"
>
> ### Issue Tracking
> We are currently using github issues, which works fine, but would like to
> change to Jira.
>
> ### Other Resources
> - Wiki: We are currently using github wiki, we would like to move to an
> Apache supported wiki (preferable mediawiki), before our documentations
> gets too complicated to move.
>
> - Buildbot: We would like to be able to build/test on OSX, Windows and
> Ubuntu.
>
> - Web: We would like, if possible, to have the home page
> corinthia.incubator.apache.org (just raw html please).
>
> - Blog: We would like, to have a blog, preferable wordpress.
>
>
> ## Initial Committers
> Our initial list of committers is not as long as we would have liked it to
> be, but have not pushed for a larger community before becoming part of ASF.
>
> Dorte Fjalland, dorte@casacondor.com (ICLA mailed)<br> Jan Iversen,
> jani@apache.org (ASF member++)<br> Louis Suárez-Potts, louis@apache.org
> (AOO PMC)<br> Peter Kelly, peter@uxproductivity.com (ICLA mailed)<br>
> Svante Schubert, svante.schubert@gmail.com (AOO committer)
>
> ## Affiliations
> None
>
> ## Sponsors
> ### Champion
> Jan Iversen
>
> ### Nominated Mentors
> Jan Iversen.
>
> Since jan is involved in the project, it would be beneficial to have at
> least a second mentor with a "outside" view, who can help focus on the
> administrative logistics.
>
> ### Sponsoring Entity
> Incubator IPMC.
> =========================
>
> Sorry about that, please blame me, not the project.
>
> rgds
> jan i.
>
>
> On 24 November 2014 at 20:18, jan i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > On behalf of the project team I  would like to propose Corinthia as an
> > Apache Incubator project. The complete proposal can be found at:
> > https://github.com/uxproductivity/Corinthia/wiki/Incubator-proposal
> >
> > We will move the proposal to incubator wiki, if it gets accepted and
> > all project members have r/w access.
> >
> > I would like to point out, that we really would like a second mentor,
> > who are familiar with all the "paperwork" and can help give a second
> > opinion from the "outside" since I am also involved in the project.
> >
> > The project team hope for a good discussion and hope to get feedback.
> >
> > Remark I have added all initial committers to this mail, since not all
> > are subscribed to general@.
> >
> > Please find the complete text below:
> >
> > On behalf of the Corinthia team
> > jan I.
> >
> > ====== COPY =======
> > ## Proposal
> > The goal of Corinthia is to provide a responsive design editor
> (converter?
> > Or complete program? I suggest just using, “program”, a term used next
> > paragraph) as well as a toolkit that enacts a defined conversion
> > between different office document formats. Responsive design fits the
> > layout as needed, tablet or desktop. The editor is a lightweight
> > editor - an extension and not a replacement for the desktop editor.
> >
> > Many office document programs claim to read/write to the ISO open
> > standards for office documents, OpenDocument Format (ODF) and Open
> > Office XML (OOXML), but do not document which parts are left
> unimplemented.
> > Furthermore, the standards have a large number of "implementation
> defined"
> > parts, making real-world congruence chancy. The Corinthia toolkit
> > wants to put this unacknowledged aspect into the open and provide
> > "compliance sheets" for document formats, as known from industry
> computer protocols.
> >
> > Corinthia aims at generating a large set of test documents, which can
> > be used to verify the "compliance sheets". The code can work as test
> > case for other applications (or entities tendering for OOXML/ODF based
> > systems) as well.
> >
> > The base of Corinthia and its toolkit is the library DocFormats, which
> > converts between different office document file formats. Currently it
> > supports .docx (part of the OOXML specification), HTML, and LaTeX
> > (export-only).
> >
> > The design  of DocFormats is based on on the idea of bidirectional
> > transformation (BDT), in which a specific document (the original file
> > in its source format) is converted into an abstract document (in the
> > destination format). A modified version of the abstract document can
> > then be used to update the specific document in a non-destructive
> > manner, keeping intact all parts of the file which are not supported
> > in the abstract format by modifying the original file rather than
> replacing it.
> >
> > Descriptions of BDT can be found in:
> >
> > Aaron Bohannon, J. Nathan Foster, Benjamin C. Pierce et. al. Boomerang:
> > Resourceful Lenses for String Data. Technical Report MS-CIS-07-15
> > Department of Computer and Information Science University of
> Pennsylvania.
> > November 2007. [boomerang.pdf](
> > http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/papers/boomerang.pdf)
> >
> > Benjamin Pierce. Foundations for Bidirectional Programming. ICMT2009 -
> > International Conference on Model Transformation. June 2009.
> > [icmt-2009-slides.pdf](
> > http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/papers/icmt-2009-slides.pdf)
> >
> > The short term goal of the project is to have an easy-to-integrate
> > library that any application can use to embed support for a range of
> > different file formats, and use the parsing, serialisation, and
> > conversion facilities for various purposes. These include editors,
> > batch conversion tools, web publishing systems, document analysis
> > tools, and content management systems. By abstracting over different
> > file formats and using HTML as a common intermediate format, one can
> > just code an application to that end, and let DocFormats take care of
> conversion to other formats.
> >
> > The medium term goal of the project is to have a series of end-user
> > applications (separate from the library itself), including an editor
> > and file conversion tool. These will serve as examples of how the
> > libraries can be used.
> >
> > And ultimately to have a touch based UI for office documents.
> >
> > It is also a goal to cooperate with other open source projects, in
> > terms of getting input from them as well as providing APIs for their use.
> > Corinthia is meant to be easy to understand and work with, making it
> > more approachable for a range of projects.
> >
> > ## Background
> > DocFormats has been shipping as part of UX Write on the iOS app store
> > since February 2013. From this perspective, it is a stable, mature
> > library that works for the most commonly-used features of .docx
> > formats. As an open source project, it is completely new, and from
> > this perspective is very much in its early stages. We are currently
> > exploring the best way to leverage the existing work that has been
> > done to make it easier to integrate in other projects, as well as
> support more file formats.
> >
> > ## Rationale
> > Apache's mission to produce software for the public good, fits with
> > Corinthia's idea of providing an editor and thoroughly documented
> > conversion of office documents, thereby hopefully show that
> > implementations can and should be documented especially where the
> > standards offer options, which will help to ensure interoperability.
> >
> > We strongly believe the project has potential to grow by cooperating
> > with other projects and offers something mature projects cannot offer,
> > a chance to take advantage of new architectures and design
> > philosophies, as well as also to learn from, and not just reproduce,
> history.
> >
> > We have found that Apache committers are loyal to Apache, and more
> > likely to take part in Corinthia.incubator than Corinthia.GitHub.
> >
> >
> > ## Initial Goals
> > The initial and most important goal is to enlarge the community
> > consisting of developers, testers, and people who know the standards in
> depth.
> >
> > Technically there are four goals:
> > - Cleanup core, to make it easy to add filters (format converters)
> > - Complete the ODF filter
> > - Add spreadsheeet/drawing formats to the ODF and OOXML filters
> > - Produce an editor based on JavaScript & HTML which can be embedded
> > in mobile apps or used in a Web browser
> >
> > Our initial goals might not be big visions, but we prefer something
> > reachable, and then make bigger goals as we grow.
> >
> > ## Current Status
> > ### Meritocracy
> > Some of the initial committers are already part of Apache, and those
> > who are not are getting used to working "the Apache way".
> >
> > ### Community
> > Our community could be larger, and committers from AOO and others have
> > shown interest in the project, but we have preferred to stay a stable,
> > but very active group until we are part of Incubator.
> >
> > Apache/Incubator provides a lot of tools (e.g., mailing lists) and
> > community practices—The Apache Way--that enable community engagement
> > and growth.
> >
> > ### Core Developers
> > Peter Kelly, peter@uxproductivity.com<br> Jan Iversen, ASF
> > member++<br> Svante Schubert, ASF committer
> >
> > Remark: Louis and Dorte do not develop, but help with non-coding tasks.
> > (Note: Louis is a committer with AOO. Does that matter? Also, I do
> > know my ODF, but not as much as Svante, of course.)
> >
> > ### Alignment
> > Corinthia has commonalities with AOO, but is not competing. AOO is a
> > desktop product and Corinthia is a lightweight editor and a developer
> > product (library).
> >
> > Corinthia has a document API like POI, but the focus is different.
> > Corinthia targets a conversion library and an editor. POI is a handling
> API.
> >
> > Sharing test documents with projects like AOO and POI seems to make a
> > lot of sense.
> >
> > ## Known Risks
> > The biggest risk Corinthia faces is failing to attract a larger
> > community (not only developers but also testers and documenters). A
> > number of actions has already been taken to minimize the risk:
> > - Contact to student projects (in particular Capstone)
> > - Talks at ApacheConEU
> >
> > The project uses existing technologies, so there are no real
> > technological risks.
> >
> > There is of course a risk that nobody wants to use the project, but
> > the fun building the community and project make this risk bearable.
> >
> > ### Orphaned products
> > None
> >
> > ### Inexperience with Open Source
> > All initial committers have worked several years with open source.
> >
> > ### Homogenous Developers
> > The initial committers are geographically distributed across the world.
> > Half of the initial developers are experienced Apache committers and
> > all have experience in working in distributed development communities.
> >
> > The original source has already been partly refactored by other
> > developers to make sure knowledge is spread among multiple people.
> >
> > ### Reliance on Salaried Developers
> > No committers are being paid to participate.
> >
> > However, it should be mentioned the Peter Kelly and Louis Suarez-Potts
> > have a company that has added a commercial editor for iPhone on top of
> > the library. The issue has been discussed.
> >
> > ### Relationships with Other Apache Products Corinthia has/will have a
> > relation to at least the following projects:
> > - **AOO**, core developers have been told on dev@ that for targeting
> > mobile platforms, a rewrite of AOO would be better than building on
> > top of the existing sources. It is our hope to have long and
> > beneficial interaction with AOO.
> > - **Httpd**, we would like to make a module that on the fly presents
> > odf/ooxml documents as pure html.
> > - **POI**, Corinthia library is similar to POI, but simpler, more
> > generic, and written in C. We hope to be able to share know-how as
> > well as test cases.
> >
> > Corinthia is based on document standards which are used by numerous
> > high-profile projects. We would like to cooperate with the projects to
> > exchange knowledge.
> >
> > ## Documentation
> > The current documentation can be found at [github](
> > https://github.com/uxproductivity/Corinthia/wiki)<br>
> > The project is aware that this is work in progress and there is
> > special attention on this task.
> >
> > ## Initial Source
> > The initial source was closed-source developed solely by Peter Kelly.
> > The source has moved to GitHub as Open Source and all files changed to
> > ASLv2 to signal the grant.
> >
> > Remark, the source was part of the UX Write product. The editor of UX
> > Write is currently not part of the grant.
> >
> > ## Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan Source code will
> > be moved from the GitHub uxproductivity organisation space to the
> > Apache space as defined by incubator.<br> Peter Kelly will grant the
> > repo to ASF.
> >
> > ## External Dependencies
> > The current source includes 2 third party libraries (see
> > [DocFormats/3rdparty](
> > https://github.com/uxproductivity/DocFormats/tree/master/DocFormats/3r
> > dparty)) to which minor modifications have been made.
> > - **minizip**, a layer on top of zlib
> > - **w3c-tidy-html5**, a html5 manipulation lib.
> >
> > Remark, currently the changes made to the original sources are
> > undocumented. The plan is to have the 1-1 sources in the repo (or have
> > users download it), and then apply a patch.
> >
> > Furthermore, Corinthia depends on
> > - libxml2
> > - zlib
> > - SDL
> >
> > ## Cryptography
> > Corinthia does not use cryptography nor are there plans to use it.<br>
> > In the medium term we would like to use digital signing of the
> > convenience binaries.
> >
> > ## Required Resources
> > ### Mailing lists
> > We would like to have:
> >
> >   dev@corinthia.incubator.apache.org for general discussions<br>
> >   private@corinthia.incubator.apache.org for private discussions
> >
> > ### Subversion Directory
> > We prefer not to use SVN.
> >
> > ### Git Repository
> > Our current git repository is [github](
> > https://github.com/uxproductivity/Corinthia).
> >
> > We would like the repo to be moved to the github apache organisation
> > under the name "corinthia" or "corinthia.incubator"
> >
> > ### Issue Tracking
> > We are currently using github issues, which works fine, but would like
> > to change to Jira.
> >
> > ### Other Resources
> > - Wiki: We are currently using github wiki, we would like to move to
> > an Apache supported wiki (preferable mediawiki), before our
> > documentations gets too complicated to move.
> >
> > - Buildbot: We would like to be able to build/test on OSX, Windows and
> > Ubuntu.
> >
> > - Web: We would like, if possible, to have the home page
> > corinthia.incubator.apache.org (just raw html please).
> >
> > - Blog: We would like, to have a blog, preferable wordpress.
> >
> >
> > ## Initial Committers
> > Our initial list of committers is not as long as we would have liked
> > it to be, but have not pushed for a larger community before becoming
> part of ASF.
> >
> > Dorte Fjalland, dorte@casacondor.com (ICLA mailed)<br> Jan Iversen,
> > jani@apache.org (ASF member++)<br> Louis Suárez-Potts,
> > louis@apache.org (AOO PMC)<br> Peter Kelly, peter@uxproductivity.com
> > (ICLA mailed)<br> Svante Schubert, svante.schubert@gmail.com (AOO
> > committer)
> >
> > ## Affiliations
> > None
> >
> > ## Sponsors
> > ### Champion
> > Jan Iversen
> >
> > ### Nominated Mentors
> > Jan Iversen.
> >
> > Since jan is involved in the project, it would be beneficial to have
> > at least a second mentor with a "outside" view, who can help focus on
> > the administrative logistics.
> >
> > ### Sponsoring Entity
> > Incubator IPMC.
> >
> >
> > ======
> >
>

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