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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:42:10 -0400
Message-ID: 
 <CAG_bHowGU-WjNKL8L4FoPWqs6J7JuZ+Uz6cRHauniSvT+49D9A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Podling binding votes
From: Tim Williams <williamstw@gmail.com>
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is conflicting from what the site said about governance of podling.
> PPMC is a part of podling and responsible to manage the podling on behalf
> of IPMC.
>
> I suppose you meant that their votes do not bind but saying it was never
> part of the structure is misleading or we need to update the ASF website
> about incubator roles page.

The conflicting bit is how you two are resolving the pronoun "our" in
Ross' statement below.... the PPMC is not a formal part of the ASF's
formal structure.... the PPMC is a formal part of the IPMC's internal
organization.

--tim

> On Friday, July 25, 2014, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com> wrote:
>
>> The PPMC is not, and never has been, a formally recognized part of our
>> structure. But as I said that's a technicality in this context, the project
>> (PPMC) are the people who really matter from the projects perspective, even
>> though their votes are not binding.
>>
>> The thread seems to be in agreement in response to Justin's specific
>> question.
>>
>> On 25 Jul 2014 01:20, "John D. Ament" <john.d.ament@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ross,
>> >
>> > The incubator website would be inclined to disagree, and seems to
>> > acknowledge there is formally a PPMC at [1].
>> >
>> > Justin,
>> >
>> > I think formally, if you review [2] (you may also want to scroll down,
>> and
>> > review later parts of this page on voting), you'll see that the PPMC
>> votes
>> > really don't count for anything other than merit.  The IPMC vote is what
>> > really counts.  If you follow that page verbatim, the votes by the IPMC
>> are
>> > the only ones that count.
>> >
>> > If you follow the alternative voting method, found at [3], you'll see
>> that
>> > votes via PPMC are acceptable if and only if the IPMC has agreed to such.
>> >
>> >
>> > [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
>> > [2]:
>> >
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html#best-practice-incubator-release-vote
>> > [3]:
>> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Ross Gardler <
>> rgardler@opendirective.com <javascript:;>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > There is no formal PPMC. When a podling is created all initial
>> committers
>> > > are equal. I guess some podlings might create the concept of a separate
>> > > PPMC during incubation. I've never advised that in my own podlings
>> > > (probably because I'm a believer in an absolute minimum barrier to
>> entry).
>> > > I guess it's up to individual projects and mentors just as our top
>> level
>> > > projects can decide if the PMC is the whole set or a subset of the
>> > > committers
>> > > On 25 Jul 2014 00:33, "Justin Mclean" <justin@classsoftware.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi,
>> > > >
>> > > > > As a mentor I've (nearly) always advised that if there are three
>> IPMC
>> > > > votes on the dev list then there is no need to make further noise on
>> the
>> > > > general list with unnecessary +1's. I therefore point out in the
>> general@
>> > > > vote mail that 3 binding (IPMC) +1's have been received and therefore
>> > > there
>> > > > is only a need to vote if there is an objection.
>> > > > Fair enough + seem reasonable to me.
>> > > >
>> > > > > TECHNICALITY: PPMC votes are not binding (although they absolutely
>> > > > should be considered as such by the project). Only IPMC votes are
>> > > > considered binding at the foundational level since PPMC members are
>> not
>> > > yet
>> > > > a member of a formal committee.
>> > > > You need 3 +1 votes first on the podlings dev list, and PPMC votes do
>> > > > count there, we wouldn't see a lot of podling releases otherwise. :-)
>> > > Does
>> > > > that mean any +1 vote (say by a committer or user) on the dev list
>> also
>> > > > counts if PPMC votes aren't actually considered binding? (I'd assume
>> not
>> > > > but again it's not clear from the document).
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > > Justin
>> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> <javascript:;>
>> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> <javascript:;>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>>

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