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From Henry Saputra <henry.sapu...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Podling binding votes
Date Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:03:03 GMT
Touché :)

On Friday, July 25, 2014, Tim Williams <williamstw@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > This is conflicting from what the site said about governance of podling.
> > PPMC is a part of podling and responsible to manage the podling on behalf
> > of IPMC.
> >
> > I suppose you meant that their votes do not bind but saying it was never
> > part of the structure is misleading or we need to update the ASF website
> > about incubator roles page.
>
> The conflicting bit is how you two are resolving the pronoun "our" in
> Ross' statement below.... the PPMC is not a formal part of the ASF's
> formal structure.... the PPMC is a formal part of the IPMC's internal
> organization.
>
> --tim
>
> > On Friday, July 25, 2014, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> >> The PPMC is not, and never has been, a formally recognized part of our
> >> structure. But as I said that's a technicality in this context, the
> project
> >> (PPMC) are the people who really matter from the projects perspective,
> even
> >> though their votes are not binding.
> >>
> >> The thread seems to be in agreement in response to Justin's specific
> >> question.
> >>
> >> On 25 Jul 2014 01:20, "John D. Ament" <john.d.ament@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>
> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Ross,
> >> >
> >> > The incubator website would be inclined to disagree, and seems to
> >> > acknowledge there is formally a PPMC at [1].
> >> >
> >> > Justin,
> >> >
> >> > I think formally, if you review [2] (you may also want to scroll down,
> >> and
> >> > review later parts of this page on voting), you'll see that the PPMC
> >> votes
> >> > really don't count for anything other than merit.  The IPMC vote is
> what
> >> > really counts.  If you follow that page verbatim, the votes by the
> IPMC
> >> are
> >> > the only ones that count.
> >> >
> >> > If you follow the alternative voting method, found at [3], you'll see
> >> that
> >> > votes via PPMC are acceptable if and only if the IPMC has agreed to
> such.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
> >> > [2]:
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html#best-practice-incubator-release-vote
> >> > [3]:
> >> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Ross Gardler <
> >> rgardler@opendirective.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > There is no formal PPMC. When a podling is created all initial
> >> committers
> >> > > are equal. I guess some podlings might create the concept of a
> separate
> >> > > PPMC during incubation. I've never advised that in my own podlings
> >> > > (probably because I'm a believer in an absolute minimum barrier to
> >> entry).
> >> > > I guess it's up to individual projects and mentors just as our top
> >> level
> >> > > projects can decide if the PMC is the whole set or a subset of the
> >> > > committers
> >> > > On 25 Jul 2014 00:33, "Justin Mclean" <justin@classsoftware.com
> <javascript:;>
> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hi,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > As a mentor I've (nearly) always advised that if there are
three
> >> IPMC
> >> > > > votes on the dev list then there is no need to make further noise
> on
> >> the
> >> > > > general list with unnecessary +1's. I therefore point out in
the
> >> general@
> >> > > > vote mail that 3 binding (IPMC) +1's have been received and
> therefore
> >> > > there
> >> > > > is only a need to vote if there is an objection.
> >> > > > Fair enough + seem reasonable to me.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > TECHNICALITY: PPMC votes are not binding (although they
> absolutely
> >> > > > should be considered as such by the project). Only IPMC votes
are
> >> > > > considered binding at the foundational level since PPMC members
> are
> >> not
> >> > > yet
> >> > > > a member of a formal committee.
> >> > > > You need 3 +1 votes first on the podlings dev list, and PPMC
> votes do
> >> > > > count there, we wouldn't see a lot of podling releases otherwise.
> :-)
> >> > > Does
> >> > > > that mean any +1 vote (say by a committer or user) on the dev
list
> >> also
> >> > > > counts if PPMC votes aren't actually considered binding? (I'd
> assume
> >> not
> >> > > > but again it's not clear from the document).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > Justin
> >> > > >
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> <javascript:;>
> >> <javascript:;>
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> >> <javascript:;>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >>
>
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