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From Chris Douglas <cdoug...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache Argus Proposal
Date Wed, 16 Jul 2014 08:20:59 GMT
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <cos@apache.org> wrote:
> If an objective of a podding is to build a diversified community then perhaps
> it should be an explicitly defined graduation criteria? In fact, earlier I have
> raised exactly the same question about Tez but I don't think it ever been
> satisfactory answered.

The incubator is a curriculum. What would the Tez project learn from
continued incubation? To cynically add token "contributors" to ward
off criticism? We shouldn't create incentives that reward faking
community over effecting it, because the former is much easier.

> So, I am fond of Henry's hope that the project will solicit a more diversified
> set of mentors and initial committers.

The committer and PPMC list should be honest. If there is no
diversity, that fact must be visible for it to be tracked.

Initial committers are a dodge that demonstrates nothing about the
project's willingness to not only accept, but attract new ideas. The
viability of an OSS project is not inaccurately *defined* as its
ability to compete for that attention. Demanding pro forma adherence
to heuristics is a harmful lesson to podlings, unless the goal is to
teach them to evade accountability. -C

> On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 02:38PM, Henry Saputra wrote:
>> Hi Andrew, thanks for chiming in =)
>>
>> I like your and Owen's opinion about initial members of an incubator project.
>> And also agree it is responsibility of the polling to achieve better
>> diversity during its time under Apache incubator.
>>
>> For this particular proposal, however, the mentors mostly coming from
>> same organization.
>> Hopefully with this proposal announcement, the project could "solicit"
>> mentors from different organizations to help add check and balance.
>>
>> - Henry
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:
>> > I had started typing up a response to Henry's mail but will discard the
>> > beginning of it to say I agree with Owen. A new project coming into the
>> > incubator quite naturally could have the initial set of committers entirely
>> > from one organization. An organization donating an existing code base, for
>> > example.
>> >
>> > However, there has been recent discussion elsewhere that the Incubator
>> > should more closely consider if an incubating project has succeeded to grow
>> > a community beyond the initially limited group before declaring a project
>> > ready for graduation. (Refer to the discussion on the graduation of Apache
>> > Tez.) This position seems reasonable, and should naturally apply here. If a
>> > project exits graduation with the same lack of PMC/committer diversity with
>> > which it entered, this is in effect Apache-washing, in my opinion. A
>> > stacked PMC is no more open a community then one controlled by a BDFL and
>> > hosted on GitHub.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Owen O'Malley <omalley@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Maybe we should start asking incubator project to try to build some
>> >> > kind of momentum or community before going to ASF incubator.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Apache incubator is a great place for new projects to grow their community
>> >> and diversity. Once a project is established it is much harder to change
>> >> the infrastructure and there projects started on github are more likely
to
>> >> stay on github. I think there is significant value in these projects being
>> >> done in the Apache Way.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > All but one PPMC members for this proposal would be from Hortonworks.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Would you like to volunteer to help mentor?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Just from high level it seems like it has similar goal as Apache Knox
>> >> > [1], what is the differences between the 2?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I think Knox and Argus complement each other. Knox provides perimeter
>> >> security via proxy/gateway services, while Argus is providing fine grain
>> >> integrated authorization and auditing.
>> >>
>> >> .. Owen
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> >    - Andy
>> >
>> > Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein
>> > (via Tom White)
>>
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