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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:18:53 +0000
Message-ID: 
 <CAOGo0VYtopvkWm6amrGjxgeHRoEh3Mimi-T4BcXEpJUUUSL73g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Allura from the Incubator
From: sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org
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If the home page really is

[1] http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura

then why does the status page

[2] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/allura.html

point to

[3] http://incubator.apache.org/allura/ ?

The host [1] is described on the status page [2] as being the Wiki,
which is normally separate from the project page.

There seems to be very little on [3] that is not on [1] so it could
probably be dropped.

However the Wiki [1] does not have the correct footer, it only says:

"This project is powered by Allura."

That should be Apache Allura.
And the pages also need the standard trademark attributions.
The site [3] does have the following:

>>
Copyright =A9 2011 The Apache Software Foundation, Licensed under the
Apache License, Version 2.0.
Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache
Software Foundation.
<<

However that fails to mention Apache Allura and Allura as being
trademarks of the ASF.


On 14 March 2014 04:32, Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:
> On 03/13/2014 10:00 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:54 PM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@apache.org> wrot=
e:
>>>> After looking at it for some time, my optimistic outlook
>>>> on the project would be +0 vote at best.
>>>>
>>>> On the plus side, the community seems to be really active
>>>> and reasonably diverse. But if feels, like ASF has not yet
>>>> become a true home for the project.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I'm talking about: as a casual bystander who
>>>> was trying to view Allura as an ASF project -- I had difficult
>>>> time. First of all, I couldn't even get to the releases easily
>>>> enough: https://incubator.apache.org/allura/downloads.html
>>>> When I managed to get there the first thing that the README
>>>> instructed me to do is to go to https://forge-allura.apache.org/
>>>> What is that? How does it relate to the project?
>>>>
>>>> In fact, from the dev list it feels like there may be yet another
>>>> canonical place for the Allura -- over at sourceforge:
>>>>    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-allura-dev/20140=
2.mbox/%3C52F80CA5.8060209%40brondsema.net%3E
>>>>
>>>> I am not quite sure if penalizing the project with a failed graduation
>>>> vote is the right thing to do, but the state of the outwards facing
>>>> project assets doesn't inspire a feel of a strong ASF community in me
>>>>
>>>> Just my 2c worth of feedback.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The projects bug tracker also seems to be at sourceforge.net, which
>>> means you need a sf.net account to participate in the project. Based
>>> on a quick perusal most of the dev@ traffic seems to be bug tracker -
>>> which means most of this is happening at SourceForge. I don't know
>>> that this is really problematic - we do have projects using github as
>>> the main portion of the contribution workflow, but it does give me
>>> pause.
>>>
>>> I also see http://sf.net/p/allura - which bears a SF logo, and which
>>> doesn't note the fact that the project is at the incubator until 1/2
>>> down the page. And nowhere on the page is it referred to as Apache
>>> Allura. From a standpoint of the project which is supposed to be
>>> policing its brand, this leaves me a bit worried - this page shows an
>>> update to that page recently; and appears at least to the outside
>>> world to be the nexus for the project and maintained by members of the
>>> PPMC.  (first return on Google is the sourceforge link.) To be clear
>>> other projects have listings at Sourceforge, so aside from the brand
>>> and trademark policing that needs to happen, I am not sure the
>>> existence of the page is much to be concerned about.
>>>
>>> There's a notice on the page that reads: "Some project information is
>>> still at SourceForge during this transition period." and indeed,
>>> there's http://allura.sourceforge.net/docs/ which looks surprisingly
>>> good when compared with http://incubator.apache.org/allura which
>>> doesn't have a working bug tracker link, and steps listed for building
>>> Allura consists of 'TODO'. All of the content from the allure source
>>> forge site appears to be in the Apache Allura git repo, so I am
>>> curious why it isn't published at the ASF. And again, we have projects
>>> who host documentation at ReadTheDocs, so I am not sure that
>>> documentation living elsewhere is an inherent problem, but it gives me
>>> pause.
>>>
>>> Individually I don't know that any of these are problematic; but I am
>>> curious what the mentors take on it is.
>>>
>>> --David
>>
>>
>> And it's just dawned on me what's happening.
>> The project is using http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura as it's
>> home page instead of http://incubator.apache.org/allura which appears
>> to have all of the appropriate content (according to a google cache)
>> but is down right now. It's making more sense; is the intention to
>> make that the project home page? (e.g. allura.apache.org)
>>
>
> You got it!  (And bad timing that it was down for several hours today -
> its back up now).
>
> Roman and sebb had similar comments to yours, so I'll respond in a
> single email.
>
> We are self-hosting at http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura so that
> is really our "home page".  It has a clear download link, and git browse
> link, and the text doesn't equate the project =3D=3D the software.  But i=
t
> is missing a link to http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.  (Note
> this domain forge-allura.a.o also has the future potential to be a
> project hosting platform for other interested Apache projects besides
> Allura itself)
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/allura is not maintained as is obvious.
> That should just go away or be redirected to
> forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura  Similarly when we're a TLP,
> allura.apache.org can just redirect there.
>
> We should update http://sf.net/p/allura to remove the SF logo, and
> clearly identify it as Apache Allura and incubating, so it adheres with
> Apache branding guidelines.
>
> The docs at http://allura.sourceforge.net/docs/ could be moved to live
> at a URL like http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/docs with a little
> work.  No reason not to.
>
> Tickets are the other item still on SourceForge.  We do want to move
> them over to the forge-allura.a.o host, but to be frank its going to be
> quite a lot of work and we haven't gotten to it.  The SourceForge ticket
> tracker is configured to send ticket activity to the allura-dev list so
> there is visibility and transparency to ticket activity.  We didn't
> think it'd be a graduation blocker to have tickets on a different host.
>  As has been mentioned, other projects have tickets elsewhere too.
>
> I hope this helps clarify the situation.  We will work on polishing up
> the remaining rough edges (perhaps everything except tickets location)
> in the next few days and then provide an update again on this thread.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
>                <><
>

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