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From David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Allura from the Incubator
Date Fri, 14 Mar 2014 01:54:25 GMT
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@apache.org> wrote:
> After looking at it for some time, my optimistic outlook
> on the project would be +0 vote at best.
>
> On the plus side, the community seems to be really active
> and reasonably diverse. But if feels, like ASF has not yet
> become a true home for the project.
>
> Here's what I'm talking about: as a casual bystander who
> was trying to view Allura as an ASF project -- I had difficult
> time. First of all, I couldn't even get to the releases easily
> enough: https://incubator.apache.org/allura/downloads.html
> When I managed to get there the first thing that the README
> instructed me to do is to go to https://forge-allura.apache.org/
> What is that? How does it relate to the project?
>
> In fact, from the dev list it feels like there may be yet another
> canonical place for the Allura -- over at sourceforge:
>    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-allura-dev/201402.mbox/%3C52F80CA5.8060209%40brondsema.net%3E
>
> I am not quite sure if penalizing the project with a failed graduation
> vote is the right thing to do, but the state of the outwards facing
> project assets doesn't inspire a feel of a strong ASF community in me
>
> Just my 2c worth of feedback.
>

The projects bug tracker also seems to be at sourceforge.net, which
means you need a sf.net account to participate in the project. Based
on a quick perusal most of the dev@ traffic seems to be bug tracker -
which means most of this is happening at SourceForge. I don't know
that this is really problematic - we do have projects using github as
the main portion of the contribution workflow, but it does give me
pause.

I also see http://sf.net/p/allura - which bears a SF logo, and which
doesn't note the fact that the project is at the incubator until 1/2
down the page. And nowhere on the page is it referred to as Apache
Allura. From a standpoint of the project which is supposed to be
policing its brand, this leaves me a bit worried - this page shows an
update to that page recently; and appears at least to the outside
world to be the nexus for the project and maintained by members of the
PPMC.  (first return on Google is the sourceforge link.) To be clear
other projects have listings at Sourceforge, so aside from the brand
and trademark policing that needs to happen, I am not sure the
existence of the page is much to be concerned about.

There's a notice on the page that reads: "Some project information is
still at SourceForge during this transition period." and indeed,
there's http://allura.sourceforge.net/docs/ which looks surprisingly
good when compared with http://incubator.apache.org/allura which
doesn't have a working bug tracker link, and steps listed for building
Allura consists of 'TODO'. All of the content from the allure source
forge site appears to be in the Apache Allura git repo, so I am
curious why it isn't published at the ASF. And again, we have projects
who host documentation at ReadTheDocs, so I am not sure that
documentation living elsewhere is an inherent problem, but it gives me
pause.

Individually I don't know that any of these are problematic; but I am
curious what the mentors take on it is.

--David

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